Tips to Follow If You Missed the Tax Deadline

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KATRINA MADEWELL:   Welcome you are listening to the IRS Solution Attorney show thanks so much for joining us this morning.

DARRIN T. MISH:   I’m the IRS Solution Attorney Darrin T. Mish.

KATRINA MADEWELL:   And I’m your co-host, Katrina Madewell thanks for coming back.  If it’s your first time ever catching us this week Darrin does a lot of really amazing things with people that owe the IRS money just in case you have never caught the show and it’s your first time.

DARRIN T. MISH:   Yeah those are my people for sure.  People that I like to say that I focus cause I’m not allowed to say specialize.  I focus on helping people who have IRS you know quite frankly disasters that’s what I do.  I help people who think that they have a huge problem and hopefully often, quite often we turn it into something that’s really manageable and not that bad.

KATRINA MADEWELL:   And he makes these things look easy, we share every week the train wreck of the week which we will have another one for you today and all the shows are available on a podcast.

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DARRIN T. MISH:   Absolutely are they’re available on ITunes as well as Android, and it’s under the, it’s kind of confusing but the podcast is called the IRS problem solver but if you just search for my name Darrin Mish in the search bar you will definitely find it, there’s loads and loads of podcast episodes if you have tax problems that you want to learn more about how I can help you or perhaps you might even be able to help yourself.

KATRINA MADEWELL:   Yeah cause there is a lot of great tips that we share every single week on the show and many things that I have learned over the years just by doing the show with you that I didn’t know before.

DARRIN T. MISH:   Absolutely you know every week I talk to people that I’m not a really great fit to help them solve their problem because their problem isn’t big enough and the fee would be disproportionate to you know the size of their problem that kind of thing.  But I try to take time out and help those folks and tell them what they need to do because that is how I would want somebody to treat me.

KATRINA MADEWELL:   And plus it’s really nice just to be able to push that podcast to them, like if you are short on time they could listen to you explain that in detail.

DARRIN T. MISH:   Yeah it’s a lot better because you know we devote this time every week to go ahead and talk about these things and it’s a lot more leverageable, it’s a lot more you know what’s the word I’m thinking of… efficient for me to do it one hour a week instead of trying to do it you know 300 people who called or you don’t want to answer a question.

KATRINA MADEWELL:   Definitely good use of time.  So if you do have a question though or a problem and you think it is something that you definitely need to talk to Darrin about you can reach him at 888-get-mish.

DARRIN T. MISH:   That’s 888-get-mish, 888-438-6474.  Please don’t call 1-800-get-mish that persons had that phone number for a very long time, over 20 years and it has a tendency to really annoy them so 888-get-mish.

KATRINA MADEWELL:   You should make friends with them and make sure that they tell the callers that it’s 888.

DARRIN T. MISH:   I’ve been trying to buy that number for years and can’t manage to get it.  There’s also our website you can visit


DARRIN T. MISH:   Also for years I have been trying to buy .

KATRINA MADEWELL:   You could get mish?

DARRIN T. MISH:   How cool is that you know 4 letters long but there’s evidently an economist you know kind of guy with the last name Mish  that we are not related, I wish we were and….

KATRINA MADEWELL:   You should invite him on the show.  It would be fun.

DARRIN T. MISH:   He owns it and he is not parting with it so.  Our website is

KATRINA MADEWELL:   Which is relevant for what you do so it works.

DARRIN T. MISH:   Yeah pretty much says what we do, you know we help people get help with the IRS.

KATRINA MADEWELL:   So our topic for today’s show…

DARRIN T. MISH:   Is Tips for those who missed the Tax Deadlines.  So if you’ve been living in a cave or under a rock or just maybe on a cruise at sea for weeks like some relatives of mine are they are out in the middle of the Atlantic bobbing on their way from Tampa Florida to Barcelona Spain kind of wish I was out there.

KATRINA MADEWELL:   I think I saw that cruise and wanted to go on it, it’s a long one right where it ends up in Europe?

DARRIN T. MISH:    Yeah it’s like 2 weeks and they went on a really nice Royal Caribbean ship and I’m sure they are having fun and I’m sure they are actually not listening but….

KATRINA MADEWELL:   Pat’s like dang I wish I was on that ship.

DARRIN T. MISH:   If you missed it the tax filing deadline was April 18th this year.

KATRINA MADEWELL:   Couple extra days squeezed in there.

DARRIN T. MISH:   And the reason was that…

KATRINA MADEWELL:   Some weird Boston holiday right or patriotic holiday or something we talked about?

DARRIN T. MISH:   Actually I said it was Patriot’s day from Boston a couple of episodes ago, it turns out it was emancipation day rather…

KATRINA MADEWELL:   I was going to say is that a new word I haven’t heard that one.

DARRIN T. MISH:   Emancipation day in Washington D.C on Friday and when it falls on a holiday then it has to get shifted to the next Monday.  So the people up north actually had to until April the 19th to file which is also bizarre.

KATRINA MADEWELL:   Yeah very bizarre, how did they get away with that one?

DARRIN T. MISH:   Shouldn’t there be one filing deadline.

KATRINA MADEWELL:   Yeah that is what I would think.

DARRIN T. MISH:   I think it shows you that people up in New England have a lot of political power, you know a lot of pull.


DARRIN T. MISH:   So the filing deadline was April 18th for 2016 and if you didn’t file your tax return or at least an extension then you probably should have because problem is penalties and interest are accruing now and probably faster then you think.

KATRINA MADEWELL:   And so what’s a good tip that we could give our person listening if they just, if for some reason maybe they were on that cruise or they missed that deadline?

DARRIN T. MISH:   So it’s important to note that there’s 2 penalties that are accruing right now if you just didn’t file an extension and you owe tax.  One is the filing of the late return and that is one set of penalties and the other one is late payment of the tax because we don’t talk about this a lot but people think that filing an extension gets you time, more time to pay your taxes.  Wel0, l it really doesn’t.

KATRINA MADEWELL:   I swear I thought that for the longest time before doing the show, I honestly thought if you filed an extension it was an extension for everything.

DARRIN T. MISH:   Yeah you actually have to pay your taxes by the deadline, filing deadline and or at least have to get within 90% accuracy to avoid paying a penalty.  So these 2 penalties:  The failure to file or late filing rather and failure to pay can actually max out at up to 50% of the tax due.  It takes a while before that happens but it’s like half a percent per month or any fraction of a month.

KATRINA MADEWELL:   Do you think because of the penalty and interest that’s why some of your tax cases are so big I mean these people come in with crazy numbers.

DARRIN T. MISH:   Oh without question that’s why they are so big and there are times and I  don’t really have time to explain what I’m going to say here but there are times when you want the case, you want the balance to be larger rather than smaller and so…

KATRINA MADEWELL:   Ok, do tell, because that does not make sense to me.

DARRIN T. MISH:   Alright, larger tax liabilities are actually easier you know this is all like stereo typical  you know kind of commentary I’m giving you but larger tax balances are easier to compromise through the use of an Offer in Compromise then smaller balances and let me tell you why.  The IRS has 10 years from the date of the assessment of the tax to collect the tax that is the statute of limitations it’s 10 years.  So imagine that you are somebody who owes $25,000 and you come in and there is still 10 years left on the statute and you say Darrin, I want to go ahead and compromise this, this tax debt, well the equation for an Offer in Compromise is monthly disposable income times 12 plus assets equals the amount of the offer so.  So let me give you a short example, if your monthly disposable income was $100, a 100 x 12 is $1200, let’s assume you have no assets, then $1200 on a $25,000 debt is a pretty good deal, I would take that deal every day and twice on Sunday.  The problem is if that monthly disposable income figure is sufficient to full pay within the life of the statute of limitations then the IRS is not going to give you that deal they just want you to make those payments.  So they just want you to go ahead and pay that $100 over the 10 years until the $25,000 is paid ok so what that means is if they owe a larger amount of money so let’s go ahead and 10x this thing.

KATRINA MADEWELL:   It’s not feasible right?

DARRIN T. MISH:   But yeah let’s 10x this thing, you owe $250,000 now and you have the same 10 years is it easier or harder to convince the IRS that you could never afford to pay $250,000?

KATRINA MADEWELL:   It’s going to be a lot easier because it’s a bigger number.

DARRIN T. MISH:   It’s a lot, lot easier so I got an offer through in the past month or two on a couple, young couple that owed $25,000 and when I got the acceptance letter and I did like a little happy dance in the receptionist area and I was really, really happy about it because it was hard.  I had to prove that those, that couple couldn’t pay $25,000 over 10 years now…

KATRINA MADEWELL:   Let’s just face it almost everybody could come up with 25 grand over 10 years.  I mean you think about your kids like if you had to come up with some, if you had to buy something that would keep your child alive you could come up with that $25,000 real quick.

DARRIN T. MISH:   Exactly so that’s the whole point so, your question, your initial question was hey do I think that some of my cases that balances get so big because of penalties and interest answer is yeah all of them.  I mean all of them are so big because of penalties and interest because if you think who my typical tax payer is, my typical client is they are a non-filer right so they don’t file for long periods of time and then we get those filings caught up and then we have a big ginormous number and then we figure out what the solution is, is the solution to do an Offer in Compromise which you know again is where you make a deal to settle for less or is it to wait a few years to do a bankruptcy, is it to do an installment agreement you know is it to sell your house or get a home equity line on your house and just full pay it?  All of these solutions are different depending upon the person’s unique fact and circumstances.

KATRINA MADEWELL:   And they take roughly how long to complete?  Most of them are?

DARRIN T. MISH:   When you are talking about an Offer in Compromise they have up to 2 years to accept or reject the offer.  Did you know this if they go 2 years and a day then the offer is deemed accepted and there is no more discussion now I’ve never seen one like that but it can happen.

KATRINA MADEWELL:   Wow that would be sweet if you got that for the first time.  Well, you are listening to the IRS Solution Attorney show we have to take a quick break, if you have a question feel free to call Darrin’s office 888-get-mish.

DARRIN T. MISH:   888-get-mish.

KATRINA MADEWELL:   And he is happy to discuss a lot of these in detail we know most of you guys don’t want to call us if you do you have to talk about your tax problem and that’s ok but we  will be here 888-get-mish.   IRS Solution Attorney will be back in just a minute.

(Commercial break)

DARRIN T. MISH:   Welcome back to the IRS Solution Attorney show I am the IRS Solution Attorney Darrin T. Mish.

KATRINA MADEWELL:   And I’m your co-host Katrina Madewell thanks so much for joining us this morning.

DARRIN T. MISH:   Today we are talking about Tips for those who missed the Tax Deadline if you have been living under a rock or out on the cruise ship out in the middle of the ocean for weeks, the filing deadline was April 18th and we were talking about just the different penalties and what not that can accrue and what you should do if you actually miss the deadline.  What a lot of people do is they just kind of freak out quite honestly they do, they just kind of stress out, they have a lot of anxiety, and they are worried they are going to go to prison and all kinds of crazy ideas.

KATRINA MADEWELL:   I was going to ask you when we were talking in the last segment because we talked about this on the show in the past that many times people actually they are so nervous and you talked about the guy that thought the IRS was outside and all this different stuff, how like once they hire you do you find they are a lot more relieved that they can kind of relax a little bit or are they still uptight and stressed out until you get all the way to the end?

DARRIN T. MISH:   There tend to be two vastly different sides to that equation so on the one hand, no they are still just as freaked out and they are just going to be freaked out the whole time and there is nothing you can do about it and they are just going to be high strung and upset and worried and the other guy is like cool, Darrin’s on it like see ya  and then they don’t cooperate, they don’t communicate they just hey I wrote you a check and like the problem’s over right?  Ok see ya and they just kind of check out and the people that quite honestly get the best sort of solutions or results are the people who are in the middle of those two vastly different areas.

KATRINA MADEWELL:   So how involved do they have to be?  You are saying cooperate, what kind of things do they need to do if they are in the middle of a tax mess with them?

DARRIN T. MISH:   Well just about every case we need certain documentation right I mean it really cracks me up like bank statements are one of those things that in my business is just like a cornerstone fundamental thing that you got to have.

KATRINA MADEWELL:   So they ask for your current bank statements?

DARRIN T. MISH:   So we are going to ask the client because the IRS is going to ask us for bank statements going back usually 3-6 months and…

KATRINA MADEWELL:   You have the power of attorney can’t you just get it from the bank?

DARRIN T. MISH:   No cause I don’t have a general power of attorney I just have a power of attorney with regard to IRS matters and frankly I don’t want the general power of attorney I don’t want to do that because listen you deal with, you don’t deal with lending sites to much anymore over real estate but how hard is it to get a bank statement like honestly, seriously?

KATRINA MADEWELL:   Well we had to modify our authorization forms over the years because of stuff like that because woo hoo like sometimes they flake out and then you know we still have to do everything we can to get it done on time.

DARRIN T. MISH:   So your answer is we just get it for them.

KATRINA MADEWELL:   Well I mean it’s still hard because everything is so privacy centered right now but you know it’s hard.

DARRIN T. MISH:   That was a rhetorical question really so most of my clients use a large banking institution that has online bank statements.


DARRIN T. MISH:   Most of the people aren’t even getting the bank statements in the mail I don’t even think I get bank statements in the mail.

KATRINA MADEWELL:   No I don’t either and the problem is that they don’t want to do it, they will do a verification of account but that’s it.

DARRIN T. MISH:   Yeah I had an opportunity to ask somebody this question earlier this week and I said it was a non-filing situation so we were going to get the business bank statements so that we could help put together a business tax return ok and so I told the lady that I needed the bank statements going back several years say go back 5 years and she is like well gee I don’t know I don’t know if my bank will go back that far, I said well who do you bank with and she said Wells Fargo and I happened to be able to check and Wells Fargo goes back to 2009 and so the point of my explanation here is that a lot of the behaviors that got people into tax problems to begin with are behaviors that they continue to exhibit when we are trying to solve the problem, it’s procrastination, failure to sort of prioritize what’s important.  It’s really a procrastination situation where they just want to put it off because, I don’t think they are bad people at all I’m not trying to say that, I’m not trying to be negative about them at all, it’s just a situation where you got to do, to solve a problem you have to have a plan, you have to have a plan and then you got to work the plan.  So one of the biggest challenges in our kind of business is that people just don’t adequately cooperate and I don’t ask them to do anything crazy.

KATRINA MADEWELL:   So when someone comes in for the initial meeting do you usually give them kind of a general checklist of what they need, what you need to get started on it like you used that example of going back what did you  say 5 years for the bank statements?

DARRIN T. MISH:   So that’s not typical either by the way usually we need 3 months’ worth of bank statements at some point during the representation so 3 months is really not a big hurdle you know, log on, click a link, print it up either mail those, scan those or fax those over to us and we are done.  But what we do is we actually have some pretty neat software that we did not develop, it’s off the shelf, software for people who do what I do.  We are able to send them an email that has a link inside of it and when they click the link it takes them to a client questionnaire and there like inside of their file for in our software so it’s all web based and they are going to answer some simple questions about their finances, it might take a half an hour and by the way every single person is going to do it wrong and that’s ok because we know that we have been doing this for years, we know what looks wrong and what looks right.  So but there are just certain financial questions that only the tax payer can answer you know like, there is no way for me to find out what your car payment is.


DARRIN T. MISH:   You know there is no way for me to know how much your house payment is, there’s no way for me to know how much money you have in a bank account.  Those types of really personal questions where you know I need some help.  Now there are people that just can’t do it I mean for whatever reason either their attention span is too short or there anxiety is too high, they just can’t do it so…

KATRINA MADEWELL:   Just tell them to order the kind of report and give it to you and you can pull all the information off of there.

DARRIN T. MISH:   So there’s not necessarily everything on the credit report that we would need but in those limited situations what we do is basically assign a staff member and they just talk to them.

KATRINA MADEWELL:   They hold their hand and walk them through the process.

DARRIN T. MISH:   Literally staff members in there, in there you know file on the software and they just ask the questions and they type the answers in, we would rather not do that because it is not really efficient and it’s not really cost effective.

KATRINA MADEWELL:   Good use of time.

DARRIN T. MISH:   But we do that for certain people and it has the tendency to be the older folks or the people who just have really super high anxiety.  There’s a lot of people who have some you know minor mental health problems or minor emotional problems and that contributes to the fact that they end up with a tax problem.  Does that make sense?

KATRINA MADEWELL:   Yes it does.

DARRIN T. MISH:   You know they have trouble coping with like everything so it’s no big surprise that they have trouble coping with a big thing.  You know when I used to do criminal defense work, we used to see the mentally ill in courtrooms for crimes all the time.  And it wasn’t really because their crimes were all that bad, we would see shoplifting, same guy shoplifting 18 times you know and it wasn’t like he didn’t have any money which he didn’t have any control over his impulses.  A lot of times they were very very low IQ and so they would just end up in the criminal justice system time and time again.

KATRINA MADEWELL:   It’s just fun for them or it’s an urge or…

DARRIN T. MISH:   It’s just something that they need treatment for and there’s no social programs available to get that treatment until you get into the system and then you know, a petty theft can be a felony after your third conviction so you could actually go to prison for stealing a candy bar you know, it can happen.  It’s not real common, typically most court systems especially in the more metro areas of this state will go ahead and try to treat that person underlying whatever that is you know emotional or mental problem and not just throw them in prison because it’s expensive to house somebody in prison.  So see getting back to the tax thing so there are just people who have some emotional problems or mental problems and they just have a little bit harder time dealing with the tax you know obligations, but usually we get them cleaned up and kind of set them off in the right direction and it all goes well from there.

KATRINA MADEWELL:   Now I know I got us a little bit off topic but sometimes I just have these curious questions that just pop up.

DARRIN T. MISH:   Yeah for sure.  So we were talking about what do you do if you haven’t filed on time, you miss the deadline what do you do?  Well the first thing you are going to want to do is file as soon as you can cause those penalties are racking up at half a percent a month times 2 and then…

KATRINA MADEWELL:   On top of last month’s interest and penalties.

DARRIN T. MISH:   Last month interest and penalty is compounded daily and any fraction of a month is another month so…

KATRINA MADEWELL:   Yeah we talked about that last week I didn’t even realize that.

DARRIN T. MISH:   Yeah so if you didn’t file on April 18th, by the time you get to May you know 19th that’s 2 months even if you file on May 19th it’s 2 months so you want to go ahead and file as fast as you can.  Now there’s actually something that is called IRS Free file and if you owed less, if you made $62,000 or less you can use that situation and those are online, they are fillable forms that you can e-File and there is no charge to use the program and I think that is what the IRS is going to.  They are trying to move farther, and farther towards almost like an I think a….

KATRINA MADEWELL:   A self-filed society.

DARRIN T. MISH:   What they want is an automatic filed society you know and they keep trying to push initiatives to where there’s more and more information returns like 1099’s, so they are trying to track every dollar through the economy so that they can ultimately file for you because it would be a lot, well everybody would pay more tax, not everybody but a lot of people.

KATRINA MADEWELL:   You think they would actually file for you, you think we are moving in that?

DARRIN T. MISH:   Yeah that is what they are trying to get to is a situation where the IRS files for you and can file for you and they go ahead and just start to collect the money from there.  We are a ways off from that because when they tried the experiment with 1099’s between corporations, it was a disaster because they didn’t realize that that was going to generate billions if not trillions of information returns and literally their computers couldn’t handle it.  But they did, I mean we did get down that road and they tried to do that but because 1099’s are not required for corporations that are doing business with each other right so….

KATRINA MADEWELL:   Right so if you want the right off you should issue the 1099.

DARRIN T. MISH:   Well there’s no, as far as I know there’s no requirement to issue the 1099’s probably just good safe practice at this point but probably a few years ago you never saw a 1099 issued to a corporation like ever.  Now…

KATRINA MADEWELL:   Yeah because I noticed that come up in my own situation for the last several years, over whatever that amount is you should have them issue a 1099.

DARRIN T. MISH:   The other thing that they have been doing which is probably not a good thing is they are issuing 1099’s for credit card transactions so again prior to maybe 5 years ago or so they didn’t issue 1099’s for credit card processing accounts and now they are so that’s really probably a good thing that for people that have to file returns.

KATRINA MADEWELL:   See for somebody like me I never took credit cards until recently because that is just not our business, we don’t do that.

DARRIN T. MISH:   You take credit cards now?

KATRINA MADEWELL:   Well for the radio stuff.  And occasional rental payments.

DARRIN T. MISH:   Maybe a credit report or something like that.

KATRINA MADEWELL:   Yeah rental application fee.  Well you are listening to the IRS Solution Attorney show we have to take a quick break we will be back and we will continue on with Tips for those that actually missed the tax deadline.  Back in a moment.

(Commercial break)

KATRINA MADEWELL:   Welcome back you are listening to the IRS Solution Attorney show with Mr…

DARRIN T. MISH:   Darrin T. Mish THE IRS Solution attorney.

KATRINA MADEWELL:   And I’m your co-host Katrina Madewell keeping it fun and real.

DARRIN T. MISH:   Today we are talking about, today we are trying to talk about tips for those who missed you know the filing tax deadline…

KATRINA MADEWELL:   But see I think this is so much like last week’s you know my random questions that come in my head but I usually don’t ask we are getting a little bit off topic.

DARRIN T. MISH:   Yeah it’s a whole lot of fun to just go ahead and talk about things that have happened in situations and just answer questions then stick to some boring sort of tax attorney outline.

KATRINA MADEWELL:   If you have a question for Darrin you are welcome to call his office, you can reach him directly at 888-get-mish.

DARRIN T. MISH:   888-get-mish, 888-438-6474, 888-438-6474.

KATRINA MADEWELL:   Don’t forget 888 first get-mish

DARRIN T. MISH:   Yeah it also works with 866 and 855 I think but 888 is always safe.

KATRINA MADEWELL:   Oh my gosh don’t add all of that into the mix Darrin, what are you doing?

DARRIN T. MISH:   So you know if you didn’t file your taxes because you missed the filing deadline or you were just incapacitated or you just didn’t think about it you just blew it then interest and penalties are continuing to accrue right now and you want to go ahead and get those things filed as soon as you can to try to eliminate or reduce the penalties where ever you can.  We talked about e-Filing with the IRS free file and that is available up until on the IRS’s website at that’s until October the 17th which is the filing, the extension filing deadline this year.  e-Filing seems a little bit freaky you know just somebody that is old school and been filing paper returns for a lot  of years but you know we do everything else virtually right now on the internet, I think I’m at the point right now where I gained more bills online then I do paper check.

KATRINA MADEWELL:   Oh for sure I do to.

DARRIN T. MISH:   I think I write about 3 or 4 paper checks a month any more.

KATRINA MADEWELL:   I don’t think the e-stuff freaks people out but when we were talking about but when we were talking about the IRS free file that kind of freaked me out a little bit, can’t even imagine the IRS actually doing my own returns like What…

DARRIN T. MISH:   Yeah that’s kind of there Utopia, that’s there Nirvana, they are trying to get to the point where they can file for tax payers.  And I think for wage earners you know people who get W-2’s and have withholdings on a regular basis.  I don’t think that is that far off you know especially if you have already kind of filed a document that says my kids are this age and you know I have a mortgage interest and this is the rate and all that kind of thing.  If they don’t get to a point where they can file for you they are going to get to a point where they need like 5 people, 5 numbers.

KATRINA MADEWELL:    So talking about kids and a question, at what point like when you are taking your children as deductions are they not a deduction anymore, cause many times kids live at home, they go to college, are they still a deduction at that point?

DARRIN T. MISH:   You know you are supposed to run these questions by me before you put me on the spot.

KATRINA MADEWELL:   I know but I just like to spring them on you.

DARRIN T. MISH:   I think the answer is it’s up to 26 now and I think that has to do with the ACA.

KATRINA MADEWELL:   Because I thought it was extended to.

DARRIN T. MISH:   Affordable Care Act, I can tell you that.

KATRINA MADEWELL:   Like only if they are not filing claiming themselves right?

DARRIN T. MISH:   Yeah, yeah if they claim themselves then you can’t claim them as a deduction but I can tell you that I was actually a dependent of my parents until I was about 26 because I went to college then I went to law school and I just…

KATRINA MADEWELL:   I was going to say you are an attorney so I’m sure you were a dependent for a while because you have the student loans that follow that.

DARRIN T. MISH:   Yeah student loans, boy don’t even get me started but you know they are just really important to pay because if you don’t pay them then guess who gets to collect the money ultimately?

KATRINA MADEWELL:   Wouldn’t that be a fun conversation for the show.

DARRIN T. MISH:   The IRS ultimately collects the money for the defaulted federally guaranteed student loans too so the IRS has become like the defecto default federal collection agency, they collect money for…

KATRINA MADEWELL:   Government, Congress.

DARRIN T. MISH:   Defaulted child support, you  know all kinds of things that you wouldn’t  think about and it’s kind of interesting we get a lot of calls from all around the country and say yeah they kept my refund for not paying child support or because I defaulted on student loan or something and they want me to help them.   You know it’s not really a tax problem you know it’s not tax debt it’s just something that the IRS has been…..

KATRINA MADEWELL:   We should do a show sometime like on those minor questions that you really are just not the best suited you know what I mean to answer in your everyday practice, we should do a show that addresses just those things.

DARRIN T. MISH:   Yeah you know I actually, I know a guy who specializes in student loan law and student loans there really is not very many options  besides paying they are generally not dischargeable bankruptcy, there are some exceptions to that and he would be a fun guest to have on the show and talk about what they can do.

KATRINA MADEWELL:   They do wipe out on death though don’t they?  I’m pretty sure they do.

DARRIN T. MISH:   Well I don’t know.

KATRINA MADEWELL:   I thought they did, not sure.

DARRIN T. MISH:   I just know that I had a lot of student loans and I really sacrificed and scrimped and saved to make sure they got paid off.  They are not quite paid off honestly there is a little bit left but it’s at such an attractive interest rate that there’s really no point in paying….

KATRINA MADEWELL:   Just ricochet, goes up to 18%.

DARRIN T. MISH:   You know there was, there was some times when my privately guaranteed student loans were you know 12-14%…

KATRINA MADEWELL:   Oh yeah the real cost of money at one point.

DARRIN T. MISH:   And we are talking 6 figures and so it was stout.  What a lot of people don’t do even with tax debt when they find themselves in a debt hole is they don’t, this is so overwhelming it just well it leads me to this question how to eat an elephant?

KATRINA MADEWELL:   One bite at a time.

DARRIN T. MISH:   One bite at a time so if the debt is the elephant you can’t just, you can’t fit the whole elephant in your mouth right?

KATRINA MADEWELL:   That would be fun to watch someone do.

DARRIN T. MISH:   Your head would explode or your mouth or something would explode.  So you got to figure out some kind of plan and that is what I did with my student loan debt even was I put it all on a spreadsheet or something like a spreadsheet as like this is who I owed and this is how much the interest rate is and this is what the balance is and you just have to devise a plan.  I mean I’m sure Dave Ramsey talks about this stuff all the time.  You just have to devise some sort of plan.

KATRINA MADEWELL:   Eat some rice and beans and stop going on vacation that is what we tell you.

DARRIN T. MISH:   Yeah and if, it actually becomes, like when you are just mired in debt and you are just paying minimums, it just seems a drag to write that check.

KATRINA MADEWELL:   It’s never going to go away.

DARRIN T. MISH:   Yeah it’s never going to go away and it just feels like a drag.  But….

KATRINA MADEWELL:   But’s it’s so liberating when you don’t have the debt, like you just feel so free.

DARRIN T. MISH:   Well I can tell you from personal experience that when I have my debt like listed on a spreadsheet or something similar on a piece of paper right in from of me and I write that check and I can see it diminishing, I can see it disappearing, I can see that I am no longer paying those high interest rate obligations in favor of the ones with lower interest rates.  I can tell you I actually get fired up about writing those checks.

KATRINA MADEWELL:   Makes you want to write a bigger check doesn’t it.

DARRIN T. MISH:   Yeah, yeah for sure and then what happens is you start to gain some velocity toward the end and you are like let’s etherize these.

KATRINA MADEWELL:   That is what Dave Ramsey calls the snowball.

DARRIN T. MISH:   Yeah ok so we can have like one last rice and beans party and you know maybe next month we can go back to caviar and champagne dreams.

KATRINA MADEWELL:   It was funny cause  I was in his office and he makes a joke, he’s like cause he said that people approach him about literally doing a rice and beans cookbook and he is like no it’s not literal people it’s just you know you are not going out for lobster and steak.

DARRIN T. MISH:   I can tell you for me over the years it was literal at some points in time when you just have business downturns or you are between jobs or what not, you have to do what you have to do and it’s kind of the same with tax debt you know you have to prioritize, you have to think about…

KATRINA MADEWELL:   How are you going to get it done?

DARRIN T. MISH:   And what’s important and some of that…

KATRINA MADEWELL:   Wouldn’t you say the biggest hurdle is people just don’t know what to expect because they don’t know the rules and the laws and what they can and can’t do.

DARRIN T. MISH:   Yeah exactly I was going to say one of the biggest steps could be just go talk to a professional such as myself because one of the things that creates so much angst and confusion and anxiety frankly is you don’t know what you don’t know so how are you supposed to make an informed and intelligent decision based on mathematics and facts.

KATRINA MADEWELL:   Well I can tell you I don’t get very anxious over almost anything, I’m pretty like even keeled but the things that make me anxious would be something big like that that I don’t know like the fear of the unknown that would make me anxious.

DARRIN T. MISH:   Yeah and that is one of the reasons frankly why I do so many videos and why we do the podcasts and why we talk about this stuff is because there is really a lack of information about the programs and the options that are available with lots of tax debt and we just want to make sure that they get that because one of the things that really pains me I mean it hurts me in the heart is to see somebody coming into my office and they say I’ve owed tax debt for 5 years and my life has been essentially ruined because I can’t function because I’m so freaked out about it I think I’m going to go to prison and that kind of stuff.

KATRINA MADEWELL:   Yeah that’s, it’s ridiculous because life is so short he could die next year or next week and why would you spend so many hours and days and months into years worrying about that.

DARRIN T. MISH:   Yeah it impacts your family relationships let’s face it, it impacts your marriage, your relationship at home with the kids.

KATRINA MADEWELL:   Do you see that sometimes it’s like the breaking point for people like when the spouse is ready to leave it’s when they finally decide, I hate to say get help and show up like AA but like come see you.

DARRIN T. MISH:   Yeah unfortunately I have, I’ve seen that a lot and I’ve actually had you know a number of people who were, had large tax problems and ultimately get divorced while I was representing them, had nothing to do with me but.

KATRINA MADEWELL:   It was already in the frame I would imagine.

DARRIN T. MISH:   It was already there and I think one of the biggest stresses in relationships, well first would probably be communication but the second one would be money right?

KATRINA MADEWELL:  It is yeah its way up there.

DARRIN T. MISH:   You know rich people get divorced too but you know if you have money stressors that makes everything in your life more complicated.

KATRINA MADEWELL:   It takes a big part of that equation out.

DARRIN T. MISH:   Kind of like having a back problem.  You know if you have a back problem everything you do in life physically hurts so you know it’s going to make everything harder and so I think if you are having financial problems when you are married, you owe taxes or yet, what happens a lot is you have one spouse typically the wife, I’m going to go ahead and give females some kudo’s here.

KATRINA MADEWELL:   That’s fine.

DARRIN T. MISH:   Typically the wife…

KATRINA MADEWELL:   I will be the good wife.

DARRIN T. MISH:   Typically the good wife is you know working a wage earner job, having taxes withheld you know doing what she needs to do because that kind of how many females are wired right…

KATRINA MADEWELL:   Some are teachers.

DARRIN T. MISH:   They just want to do the straight forward kind of correct thing and then there’s the husband, he’s the wild eyed entrepreneur,  he is going to conquer he world and he’s going to make a million and you know taxes and filing paperwork and keeping track of records and accounting and that kind of thing, just not super high on the priority list right cause I’m trying to conquer the world, I’m trying to kill elephants and stuff and one sort of picture that always goes through my mind is I think about cave man days a lot I don’t really know why but so the husband and wife, the male and female they are in the cave right and the woman’s in the back of the cave, she’s got a fire going, she’s cooking what the man brought back and stuff and but she wants nothing to do with that bear that is at the mouth of the cave and the knuckle head male, he runs out there cause he’s strong and brave and all that stuff and he goes out there to fight the bear and he gets killed.    So I think that’s, I mean you could say that might even sound a little chauvinistic but that is kind of how I see….

KATRINA MADEWELL:   It makes sense in this scenario it does explain.

DARRIN T. MISH:   Yeah it’s kind of how I see most women and most men react to having a tax problem, now have I seen women who are like hey I am going to conquer the world and I don’t have time for this, yeah for sure.  And I’ve seen men….

KATRINA MADEWELL:   And since you’ve explained the whole story and you know they just think me and my husband only totally reversed.

DARRIN T. MISH:   It’s just like stereotypically more true the other way at least in my experience but there is usually one spouse who’s like records? What do we need records for man I’m trying to just, I’m trying to do things here some important things and the other one is usually  like ok let’s do things the right conventional way and make sure we don’t have problems and things like that.

KATRINA MADEWELL:   So we’ve had a little bit of fun here today and we’ve gotten a little bit off track but we will get back on track here and if you have questions for Darrin maybe something like what we explained sounds like your situation and you think it’s time to call Darrin, you can be the wife or the husband that’s ok his number is 888-get-mish, 888-get-mish which the numbers are.

DARRIN T. MISH:   You can even be single.  It’s 888-get-mish, 888-438-6474, 888-438-6474.

KATRINA MADEWELL:   It can happen.  There’s businesses that collapse or on the brink of oh I owe this money and not a lot of it.

DARRIN T. MISH:   Yeah one of the things about tax problems is there’s tax problems in a good economy, there’s tax problems in a bad economy, there’s people today deciding there not going to pay their taxes cause they are going to use that money for something else and  that’s ok but at some point….

KATRINA MADEWELL:   But if you just bought that big screen TV a year from now don’t forget 888-get-mish.  We got to take a break we will be back in a minute.

(Commercial break)

DARRIN T. MISH:   Welcome back to the IRS Solution Attorney show I am THE IRS Solution Attorney.

KATRINA MADEWELL:   And I’m your co-host Katrina Madewell.

DARRIN T. MISH:   Today we are talking about Tips for those of you who missed your tax filing deadline, that was on April 18th so if you didn’t file a tax return and you did not file an extension on time then there are penalties and interest accruing right now and talking about things that you can do to try to minimize those penalties and interest.

KATRINA MADEWELL:   We’ve had a lot of fun and kind of went a little off track so why don’t you give us the short and skinny.

DARRIN T. MISH:   The short and skinny is, you know penalties are accruing day one after you didn’t file your taxes on time or pay them by April 18th and they can max out at up to 50% of tax and then there is interest compounding daily so you are going to want to go ahead and file your tax return as soon as you possibly can.  If your tax return’s kind of easy and you know you make $62,000 or less you can use what’s called the IRS Free file, it’s on the IRS website or you can just go ahead and just Google IRS Free file and…

KATRINA MADEWELL:   What are your thoughts on that for real though?  We talked about it but.

DARRIN T. MISH:   You know if you have the type of return that there’s wages in and if it’s basically a 1040 EZ  kind of  situation I think it’s great honestly  because you don’t need a professional to prepare that return, we do prepare a fair number of 1040 EZ’s but typically if they are non-filers so there’s been a number of years stretched together and so that makes it a little bit more complicated but if you are just a guy who is working a job and having the right amount of tax taken out you expect a refund then the IRS Free file program is fine, there is not a problem with it at all.  So if you are in a situation where you can file your return but you know you are going to owe and you can’t afford to pay it all…

KATRINA MADEWELL:   You say here you go here’s the money.

DARRIN T. MISH:   Then you are going to want to go ahead and pay as much as you can because as soon as you pay it then obviously interest and penalties are not accruing on that right?

KATRINA MADEWELL:   So kind of like this thing where like it goes up, you make a payment then it goes down it’s like this little loopy wave.

DARRIN T. MISH:   Maybe a little bit it is not as bad a credit card typically unless you have some kind of fairly low interest credit card but remember that the penalties on an IRS tax debt they, what happens is there real bad real quick at, toward the very beginning and then they max out at about 50%.  I mean 50% is like sick.


DARRIN T. MISH:   You know it’s sick so…

KATRINA MADEWELL:   Especially on some of these numbers.

DARRIN T. MISH:   Yeah so you want to go ahead and try and avoid that if you can.  There is something on the IRS’s website called IRS Direct pay and you can find that at which is so logical it’s not hard to remember and you can actually pay right out of your checking account right to the IRS, I’ve used it myself for personal tax debt I’ve owed and it works really well and I really like it because you can send them a check of course but it’s going to take several days to get there and get posted and all that kind of thing and IRS Direct pay seems to be rather instantaneous, rather efficient and I like it because if you are paying penalties on every day I want it there faster not slower.

KATRINA MADEWELL:   Right.  And every week we have some questions that you normally get on your social feeds, you can catch up with Darrin @darrin_mish and he’s also on Facebook.

DARRIN T. MISH:   I’m on Facebook as well and pretty much every social media platform where you can find us, you can find us on our website at as well.

KATRINA MADEWELL:   So what questions do we have this week, you have the list not me.

DARRIN T. MISH:   Well let me just go back and say if you still owe more than you can afford to pay you know using IRS Direct pay then you can call the IRS and get on an installment agreement if you owe under $50,000, you can usually spread that out over 72 months and that can be not that bad if you owed $10,000 over 72 months I mean the payments aren’t really all that crazy but just know the penalty is going to accrue and you are going to end up paying more than you would if you could afford to borrow  that from some cheaper source so if you have the ability to borrow that, put that on a credit card typically or borrow it from friends or family or savings even.

KATRINA MADEWELL:   That’s kind of scary but that’s better really.

DARRIN T. MISH:   So yeah because the IRS is going to be the most expensive money that you borrow ever.

KATRINA MADEWELL:   Even at 3% ha ha.

DARRIN T. MISH:   Yeah well 3% times you know.

KATRINA MADEWELL:   Yeah it’s not really 3% anyway.

DARRIN T. MISH:   On the 50% compounded daily and all that kind of stuff.  So.

KATRINA MADEWELL:   Who had what question this week do we have any? Did you get any questions?

DARRIN T. MISH:   Yeah funny question from Cheryl it says “My computer crashed, it has had all my Turbo Tax forms on it, do you have any ideas on how to get them back?”

KATRINA MADEWELL:   Ouch I can comment on that one I had Quick Books crash remember I told you that like awhile back and I could not recoup any of that data it was like after an update, I backed it up it still would not restore, like I’m still anti-Quick books  because of it.

DARRIN T. MISH:   Yeah my advice, I don’t have any advice for how to get that data back but my advice would be with as cheap as like cloud storage is now a days with, and even Google drive. There is so many of these options that are free there’s really almost no excuse not to just have an online backup of virtually everything.  But I’m sorry I can’t help you Cheryl.

KATRINA MADEWELL:   In my case it was I did the back up and it wouldn’t restore.

DARRIN T. MISH:   You want to have more than one backup to.  So.

KATRINA MADEWELL:   And in this day and age I think more and more platforms and people come out and it’s easier to connect with people so you know had it happen that long ago I probably could have posted it on one of those freelance sites for people that specialize in that.  In getting that data back.

DARRIN T. MISH:   You might Cheryl, be able to contact the IRS and get your IRS transcripts, they are called your wage and income transcripts and they might be able to give you those W-2’s, 1099’s, 1098’s that kind of thing.

KATRINA MADEWELL:   Be a great place to start.

DARRIN T. MISH:   It would be a good place to start for sure.

KATRINA MADEWELL:   Well it’s about that time.

DARRIN T. MISH:   The IRS train wreck of the week is our segment where we talk about somebody who came into the office and they were a total and complete train wreck and no surprise to hear they always leave happy.  So today’s…

KATRINA MADEWELL:   That’s right or they don’t make the list the cut list of the train wreck of the week.

DARRIN T. MISH:   Yeah, the cases that don’t, where they don’t leave happy they don’t make the cut for the IRS train wreck of the week.  This one is a little bit interesting, it’s a lot different than any one that I have ever shared before and here’s how it goes.  I had a gentleman come in who is actually a lawyer and he had filed a bankruptcy for himself, he wasn’t a bankruptcy lawyer and he filed it’s called pro se when you are representing yourself and he had filed for bankruptcy and the bankruptcy had been going on for quite some time, months and months and months and the IRS was still levying him and the levies, a levy is a seizure right so I mean they were taking his wages, they were taking his, they were levying his bank accounts…

KATRINA MADEWELL:   His boat, his car.

DARRIN T. MISH:   They weren’t taking all of that stuff cause he didn’t have that kind of stuff but they were levying his source of income and they were slowly just you know choking off the air, they were just you know crushing his windpipe so to speak and he came in and I had known him for quite some time…

KATRINA MADEWELL:   Is that the worse when you have an attorney come in to you they are probably like, like they…

DARRIN T. MISH:   Well attorney’s fall into 2 camps ok as clients they are either perfect they know that they, I know what I am doing so just let me do it or they want to micromanage every bit of the experience and that doesn’t usually work out as well because they don’t know what they are doing and so I don’t go to the doctor and say but doc you know we really should adjust this medication because I really know better, it’s not like that and I love representing lawyers for the most part because most of them just kind of know hey you  know what you are doing just help me out, explain it to me which I do pretty well and, and they just let me do my thing but this gentleman actually had he was in a bankruptcy it was still pending when he came to talk to me and he wanted me to get the levies off because he was just choking to death and I explained to him there’s this thing called the automatic stay that happens when you file a bankruptcy and the automatic stay is what protects you  from creditors, it protects you from those creditors from taking adverse actions like seizing your house and that kind of stuff, so what had happened is that he had not properly noticed the IRS that he was in bankruptcy, literally one phone call, called the IRS, hey automatic stays in place you guys are in violation of automatic stay and it turns out there actually, they released the levy…

KATRINA MADEWELL:   Like a hot potato.

DARRIN T. MISH:   That day and he is going to get about $17,000 in refunds of the levy money for while he was in bankruptcy.

KATRINA MADEWELL:   And they finally stopped choking his air off.

DARRIN T. MISH:   Yeah so I consider that a win I mean it’s not a solution to his entire problem yet and hopefully he gets to be a train wreck in the future but it was a train wreck, a great solution for him in that particular scenario.

KATRINA MADEWELL:   That was though that was different.


KATRINA MADEWELL:   Well that’s all the time we have for this week.  You are listening to the IRS Solution Attorney show I’m your co-host Katrina Madewell.

DARRIN T. MISH:   And I’m Darrin T. Mish THE Solution Attorney.

KATRINA MADEWELL:   And this week.

DARRIN T. MISH:   We’re out.

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