How to Keep IRS Problems from Bleeding into Other Areas of Your Life

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RACHEL:  Good morning America welcome to the IRS Solution Attorney show hosted by my daddy THE IRS  Solution Attorney Darrin T. Mish.  Today happens to be his birthday so, Happy Birthday, daddy.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Happy Birthday Mr. Mish.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Thank you so much. I feel so much love right now. I can feel love radiating from the universe.  You know, last week we had my son Ryan here in the studio and I got a little bit gushy and today I have, we have Rachel here obviously and…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Well she did a rock star job on the intro by the way, good job Rachel.

DARRIN T. MISH:  My goodness.

PAT GEORGE:  Just move out of the way, Katrina, she can….

KATRINA MADEWELL:  I know I’m saying.

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DARRIN T. MISH:  I’m super proud of you Rachel.

RACHEL:   Thank you, dad.

DARRIN T. MISH:  So you know I help people that have IRS Problems right?

RACHEL:   Mmm hmm.

DARRIN T. MISH:  And so what do you know about IRS problems?

RACHEL:   Well I know that it is not good to have them and that you fix them.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Wait, Rachel how old are you and what grade are you in?

RACHEL:   I’m 12 well I’m going into grade 7.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Ok, go ahead, just wanted to put that out there. So go ahead and finish your dad’s question so you know IRS problems are not good.

RACHEL:   They are not like the best thing to have you should probably get rid of them as fast as you can.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So have you been hanging out in the office and heard anything, have you heard your dad talking on the phone or anything like that?

RACHEL:   Mm hmm he talks to clients and helps them, he reassures them that like he is gonna fix them.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  What is your perspective? As a kid listening.

RACHEL:   Well…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Like you never walked in and heard your dad talking and like wow.

RACHEL:   Yeah there’s a lot of problems that need fixing.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Good for us, right?  So how long have you been coming to the office?  Is there a time in your life that you could not remember coming to the office from time to time?

RACHEL:   Probably from when I was like 5.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Ok, so the back story is Rachel’s been coming to the office since like, I don’t know from when she was about 6 weeks old.  You know, you keep your newborn at the house and until their immune system builds up and what not… and so Rachel got to the office probably when she was 6 weeks old or so and we also had Ryan so he was about 2 years old at the time and Ryan was there also from pretty much birth and he was there for the 2 years. Well, he didn’t talk on the air, right, so he was really chilled out when he was in the office, you couldn’t tell he was even there, Rachel….

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Oh yeah well her name says it all.  You know Rachel’s in the room.

DARRIN T. MISH:   Rachel was just a little bit more vocal and so Rachel lasted about a year in the office and then they all had to go.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  And then she was probably just tearing the place apart making it her own, I can see it.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yeah, so, she is not the shy one of the family and she’s probably going to be a movie star or a singer or something when she grows up.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So where did you get that from, your mom or your dad?

RACHEL:   I have no idea.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Alright what’s the answer there, Mr. Mish.

DARRIN T. MISH:  It’s probably her mom actually.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Her mom’s the outgoing one?

DARRIN T. MISH:  She’s the vivacious, outgoing, talkative one, you know, super energetic.  I’m the sort of the shy, introverted person in the family after Ryan, you know Ryan’s pretty chilled out.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  We just got to yank it out of you every week.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yeah for sure so.  We are having a great time here in the studio today, it’s really cool to have my kids here in and I feel really proud of you Rachel that you are talking on the air and it’s really special to have you.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  I know she is like bold, I don’t know if I could have done that at 12.  She’s really, I’m proud of her too.  Good job.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yeah there is no way.  I would have ran out of the room at age 12. In fact I almost ran out of the room at age 48.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  That’s funny.  Well you are listening to the IRS Solution Attorney Show that’s Mr. Darrin T. Mish.

DARRIN T. MISH:  That is me.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  The host of the show.  He answers all of those IRS problem, tax related questions every week and I’m your co-host Katrina Madewell we do our best to keep it fun, to keep it real, to answer those questions.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yeah for sure.  Today we are going to talk about something that’s, I call it kind of a soft topic.  We are not going to talk about you know tax problems per se, we are not going to talk about owing tons of money to the IRS and how you mechanically fix that.  Today we are going to talk about just How to Keep IRS Problems from bleeding into other areas of your life and really degrading those other areas of your life if, that makes sense.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  I think so, yeah. Well we have talked about it a bunch of times on the show.  When people have a problem such as owing the IRS a ton a money, whatever a ton of money is to them.  I can see how that would bleed into other areas.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Exactly. So you know when you have financial problems it has a tendency to impact negatively all the other areas of your life so if you….

KATRINA MADEWELL:  What’s the number one thing you think it impacts?

DARRIN T. MISH:  Oh, I think it impacts relationships for sure.  You see more…I see more marital strain then average.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  You could almost build in a marriage counselor into your practice I think.

DARRIN T. MISH:  I can tell you that would not be me…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  No, no, no I’m not suggesting that to you, I am just saying.  What would be a good need for another professional?

DARRIN T. MISH:  I think the guy that decided to call attorneys, attorney at law or attorney and counselor at law I think he should be shot because the  counselor part is just really not me anyway, well I guess that’s not exactly the truth.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  You have to do it in some respects.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yeah I would say I do a little bit of counseling from the standpoint of I’m here to make people feel better and understand what reality is versus their perceived fear of what’s happening in their lives so I guess I counsel.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  There’s a lot of emotions you probably have to keep that calm and at bay at some point and a lot of that is trust.

DARRIN T. MISH:  A lot of times, I realized this yesterday I was talking a gentleman and I realized I have about, when somebody comes in for an appointment I have about 10-15 minutes to allay those fears before we can get down to brass tax and talk about how we can solve the problem because…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So do you ask them straight up like what’s your number 1 fear when they come in?  What’s your biggest concern right now?

DARRIN T. MISH:  You know I should.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Just curious.

DARRIN T. MISH:  I don’t always do that. That’s, you know, it’s on the list.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Because I think if you would ask them that I think it would come right out.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Sure, yeah for sure.  You know what’s the worst thing that you are imagining that could happen.  A lot of times I don’t do that because I kind of know, you know I’ve talked to enough people I kind of know but I really should ask cause if I ask then they will have the opportunity to tell me and I will have the almost immediate opportunity to say well that’s not going to happen.  Peoples biggest fear often times is well I’m going to go to prison.  You know, I didn’t pay my taxes I owe, sometimes they are like I owe $27,000 and I think they are going to put me in prison.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  You should put like a black and white stripe jumpsuit framed, kind of like a jersey, in your office and then just put a big like some red circle with a line through it.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Universal no sign.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Yes like put that right there in the lobby.  Wouldn’t it make people feel better.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Probably would, I didn’t think that is where you were heading, I thought you were heading like put a prison jumpsuit there on the wall and just let it be there.  I think that would be really bad.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Never know what I am going to say, no I wouldn’t do that to your clients.

DARRIN T. MISH:  I think that would be really bad for business, but yeah, I think people’s biggest fears they are going to go to prison because they owe the IRS some money and you know we talked about this many times on the show that’s really unlikely, it’s very uncommon and there’s certain things you have to work at to make that happen, to even be a possibility.  Generally speaking, if you owe money to the IRS and you don’t pay them you don’t go to prison that’s sort of the general rule.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  If you are intentionally doing things that’s maybe a different story.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yeah, if you are hiding assets and you are doing lots of you know covert things to hide what you have and things like that then there is a slim possibility, there’s a lot better possibility if you are a notable public figure.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Right cause they want to make an example out of you.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Like an actor or actress or an athlete or a lawyer or doctor or such.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So Rachel out of you and your brother Ryan who’s going to be the one to follow in dad’s footsteps and go you know get their law degree and their license and help dad in the firm?

RACHEL:   Well Ryan’s going to do his type of law and then I want to probably do like land or oil.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Oh so you are gonna be an attorney to but you are going to do different like real estate or environmental.

RACHEL:   Yep.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Well Rachel’s really into rocks.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  I was gonna say, what?  That’s a different answer.

DARRIN T. MISH:  She’s one of these kids that has not grown out of the picking up rocks in the parking lot.

PAT GEORGE:  Most girls are, diamonds.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yeah we actually went to Arkansas on a vacation and in Arkansas there is a lot of diamond mines and so dad couldn’t afford to take her mining for diamonds, so we went crystal mining and she had a ball. We were all there in the red dirt with like little pick axes and we were searching for quartz crystals.  Rachel is really into rocks and she, she hasn’t gotten over it and she’s not going to get over it so she is thinking about being an oil lawyer.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So what would you do?  Do you have any idea who your clients would be?

RACHEL:   People who are having like an argument over where their land is.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Oh so property disputes.

RACHEL:   Mm hmm the same thing but with oil.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Now where did that come from, property disputes, like where did you get that at 12 just curious.

RACHEL:   Pretty much him.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So what conversation led to that.

RACHEL:   Well we were kind of talking about what I wanted to do when I grow up and like he was asking me if I wanted to be a lawyer, and I was like well, I don’t really want to deal with people that I don’t really like, I don’t really want to deal with law because I’m not interested in that, but like what other types of lawyers were there and dad told me all about those.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Well I mean you kind of have to know the law if you are going to be an attorney though.  You don’t like the reading and the…

RACHEL:   Well I don’t like…


RACHEL:   I don’t like that certain type.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Gotcha.  Well you are listening the IRS Solution Attorney show with our little, very special VIP guest Miss Rachel Mish, I’m your co-host Katrina Madewell, Mr. Darrin Mish is your host.  You got a question for him 888-404-1010 we are happy to take your questions we are live this morning in the studio 888-404-1010, save Moneytalk in your phone and even if you have just an off the wall question or comment chime on in would love to hear from you 888-404-1010 be safe we will be back in just a minute.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Welcome back to the IRS Solution Attorney show I am THE IRS Solution Attorney joined by my lovely daughter Rachel Mish and my co-host Katrina Madewell.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  That’s me, welcome back to the show.

RACHEL:   Thank you.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Welcome back.

DARRIN T. MISH:  So today we are talking about how to keep IRS problems from bleeding into other areas of your life and you know we’ve talked about this before on the show and people come in and very often I would say more than half the time there is really high anxiety.  The anxiety almost always seems to be from the fear of the unknown and my folks happen to be procrastinators and that’s ok.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  You think?  Just a little?

DARRIN T. MISH:  I love procrastinators from the standpoint of it’s so relatively easy to fix honestly, it’s based upon a decision to change that behavior, does that make sense? So when I was a kid when I was in high school, even college to some extent and maybe even a lot in law school, I would tend to procrastinate because why not right?  I mean that’s, it’s very common in I would say not typical, but normal human behavior right so I’m not saying everybody is a procrastinator but…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  I just know my kids procrastinate all the time on school projects, I’m just curious what percentage of people do that regularly.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yeah, so I was a procrastinator all the way through school and really what changed it was being a lawyer. You got deadlines, you can’t always get those changed particularly in the area of tax law.  So you’ve got to get working on it because you don’t want to be banging out a tax petition literally an hour before the post office closes on the day that it is due.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Well plus I imagine your preparation is half the battle like even for me preparation means the difference of being successful and not.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yeah, for sure. In my area for sure, if you are not prepared you are going to lose that’s just the way it is when you are doing trial work right, I mean trials are not scary, I’ve tried quite a few jury trials and trials are not scary. What’s scary is the prospect of going into a jury trial unprepared, that is terrifying ok so…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Walking into anything unprepared is kind of like, I mean…

DARRIN T. MISH:  Exactly.  And when you are unprepared what are you really scared of?  At least for me I can tell you I’m scared of the unknown.


DARRIN T. MISH:  Like I don’t know what’s going to happen, I don’t know what I’m going to say…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Well you don’t have any direction in your mind because there is no outline, there is no preparation, there’s no ground work.

PAT GEORGE:  I can’t see that happening to you.  I mean this is a guy that is always prepared how could that happen.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Well, thank you.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  That’s because you know when we first agreed to do the show together I told him I will show up, I’ll help the show going, I’ll keep it fun but I’m not doing your outlines it’s all you.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Well for sure I have really good people behind me for the show for sure and it helps…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  And sometimes we don’t even really go off the outline which makes it fun but you still got to have the outline.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yeah, today we are not really even sticking to the outline all that well but that’s fine because we know what we are talking about and we are just really prepared because of life experience right so when so when you are doing a trial and you are not prepared then that’s frightening because you are afraid of the unknown and that’s what happens to people that come see me.  The reason primarily that they haven’t dealt with the problem is because they are terrified of what might happen.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  See my idea when you say that of your client being prepared would be doing a whole bunch of research and like having at least 10 or 20 questions ready right off the bat when they come and see you.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Almost never happens.  Almost never happens.  The person…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  No wonder. They are so terrified.

DARRIN T. MISH:  I can’t remember the last person that asked me 10 or 20 questions.  It’s usually 2 or 3 and that might be because I am really thorough when we are having our conversation, I don’t know, pat on the back, but I don’t know, I just don’t thing people do that much research.  I think they do… quite a lot of people do quite a bit of research on who they are going to call first or maybe I’m quite often the second person that they call, which is fine with me.  So anyway, you just have to be careful not to let, when you have a problem of this magnitude ok, say you think you might owe $100,000 to the IRS or, even more, when you have a problem of that magnitude it’s really easy to let that bleed into other areas of your life so that anxiety causes lots of people to be really irritable and on edge all the time.  So do you, you know, you’re married, I’m married, do you want to be around somebody that’s like….


DARRIN T. MISH:  That scared all the time, it’s like unattractive.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Yeah.  Well it’s that whole energy thing right? The law of attraction and if somebody’s like always the Debbie downer you try to avoid them at all cost.  Versus somebody that is high energy you are always like wait I can’t get enough of you, wait, wait, wait hang on I have more questions for you.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yeah, so I’ve gone through periods of my life where I was feeling really negative and what not and I learned that negativity perpetuates negativity, so there’s that phrase you have to fake it till you make it.  So there was a point in my life not that long ago, couple of years ago where I was, everything was going wrong in my life like everything.  It seemed like it was just the end of the world and one day I looked in the mirror and I realized hey buddy you are the problem here and so I started faking it till I made it.  What I mean by that is I started just sort of faking positivity.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Well you changed your thought process because what you think about you talk about you bring about.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Exactly so I started behaving in a positive manner even though I wasn’t feeling that and before I knew it everything in my life had changed.  Now when I say that I’m not talking about in 5 minutes.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  It’s subtle, I mean you don’t get to that place overnight so the change doesn’t happen overnight.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Right, I would say that it was a matter of weeks though, and a matter of weeks to change your life from everything is terrible to everything isn’t terrible anymore is really not that bad.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  To the birds are chirping and the bees are buzzing.

DARRIN T. MISH:  So you know you just have to deal with these kinds of problems and IRS problems aren’t really that different from any other problem in your life you have to do a little preparation.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So going back to that time, just out of curiosity, I mean we talked about changing your thought process but was there anything specific that you remember doing that was like wow this is kind of a shift for me, like did you write on the mirror, you are the problem buddy fix it or anything like that?

DARRIN T. MISH:  No. I think that conversation was silent and all in my head but I did have that discussion with myself and I immediately stopped participating in negativity, particularly in social media because can you think of anything more repulsive then somebody who is on social media constantly posting negative things?

KATRINA MADEWELL: No I usually unfriend them, I just do.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yeah exactly.  So when some of the recent events have occurred I’ve expressed some pretty strong opinions but other than that I try to be really positive and I try and just be appreciative for what I have in my life even when things aren’t going perfectly, I can remember that too, it was more about gratitude for me you know I started really focusing on what was going well and there is so, I don’t care how bad your life is going.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  You’ve got something.

DARRIN T. MISH:  There’s almost always more good than bad right?


DARRIN T. MISH:  I mean maybe if you are sitting in a prison cell with a life sentence and your family’s all disowned you or they are all dead maybe but even then…..

KATRINA MADEWELL:  But I mean you could still say hey I’m alive today, you could read, you could work out. I mean they have more freedom then one would think.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yeah even then there are still things to be grateful for right so that was another big thing for me just being grateful for all the things going great in my life, I have a great family, had a place to live you know it was cool in the summer and warm in the winter and had food to eat, you know those types of things.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So you change your thoughts but did you start reading, did you change the people you are around like what was that shift looking back.

DARRIN T. MISH:  It was just, it’s so simple, just a decision to be better.  I can remember mentally telling myself, hey buddy, you are not actually being the best version of you that you could be and you know I have high standards for everyone else, but it’s only because I have higher standards for myself and I wasn’t even engaging in that. You know what I mean? I was just being a pity party poor me things are bad, things aren’t going exactly the way I want them to be and so I started reading more positive things, more inspirational and spiritual kinds of things and I just decided to be the best version of me that I could be.  I realized or at least I hoped that if I wasn’t the best version of me to that high standard that I spoke of that everyone would flock, gravitate naturally towards that person and there will be some people that don’t gravitate towards that my idealized best version of me or whatever I could obtain of that and that’s ok too.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Right.  Same thing too, I feel the same way. Once you get to a certain place I mean you only want to be around people you like and if you are not meshing already from the beginning it’s going to be uphill for both of you.

DARRIN T. MISH:  You know this is a little bit risky to say on the air but I don’t want to do business with people that don’t like me and that I don’t like.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  I feel the same way.

DARRIN T. MISH:  I mean it’s a little bit harsh sounding and the good news is that I like most people and I think most people like me and what you see is what you get, there is no facade here. I mean we are talking about stuff that’s, I mean I’m admitting on air to whoever is listening that I had a part of my life that was pretty bad and that I made a decision to change it.  Now Pat’s looking at me like I’m absolutely insane.

PAT GEORGE:  Now I know why you haven’t returned my calls.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  The thing about you that I think people, I noticed you mentioned earlier that alot of times that you are the second person that someone may call, I think I don’t know who the first person is but just assuming when they call you as the second person, you probably come off just a little bit different and I think the one thing, and I saw this shift in you since I’ve known you and it’s a hard thing to swallow, but just that shift in hey I was just like you, I had a tax problem to so I can relate, I think people feel that.

DARRIN T. MISH:  I hope they do because one thing that is really important to me that’s maybe lacking in some other guys is that compassion is really important to me.  I get the pain and the anxiety and the fear, I get it like to my core because I’ve been through it more than once and so when someone comes into my office as a human being that’s the first thing that I want to help them solve because if we can’t get them out of that mind set then we really can’t work together to solve the problem, it’s so scary we can’t get them to move.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Absolutely.  You are listening to the IRS Solution Attorney show and today’s topic is How to Keep that IRS Problem from Bleeding into other areas of your life.  You are here with Mr. Darrin T. Mish, I’m your co-host Katrina Madewell and in studio our lovely VIP Rachel Mish. We will be back in just a minute.  If you have a question call us we are on air live 888-404-1010, 888-404-1010 back in a minute.

(commercial break)

RACHEL:   Welcome back.

DARRIN T. MISH:  To the IRS Solution Attorney show I’m your host the IRS Solution Attorney and….

KATRINA MADEWELL:  The birthday boy.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Exactly.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Right on time Pat George thank you. I’m your co-host Katrina Madewell thanks for sticking around.

DARRIN T. MISH:  I’ve actually always liked, loved that song even though when it’s not your birthday it’s, that’s just a good rockin’ kind of tune.

PAT GEORGE:  Yeah you are in there playing air guitar you did like it.  You know I’m not the expert like you are on these IRS problems but I think one good way to keep out of the dog house of the IRS is the first step would be to open your mail.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Oh yeah, for sure.  You have no idea how often people bring stacks of unopened mail with them to their appointment and I’m glad that they bring the mail. I mean that’s nice because it kind of tells me where they are in the process.  When you’ve done…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Then they would have a notice of intent of levy in the middle of that pile.

DARRIN T. MISH:  That could be ok as long as we still have time to do something about it but I can tell pretty much what’s in the envelope by what the envelope looks like on the front, I mean I’ve look at, I’ve easily opened thousands of those.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  You know you should randomly post those pictures in social media like on Facebook and on Twitter. You should just say hey if you see this envelope it’s a sign it’s time to call Mr. Darrin T. Mish.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Hey not a bad idea and one of these days I’m going to go ahead and just post gigantic pile of unopen IRS mail.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Yes I think you should, that’s real.

DARRIN T. MISH:  You know cause it’s like if your pile looks like this there’s still hope cause there is, you know there really is.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  If you are trying to figure out how to decipher through all that mail you can actually catch up with Darrin directly at 888-get-mish, 888 what’s that translate to?

DARRIN T. MISH:  438-6474, our website’s at we have a podcast called The IRS Problem Solver on ITunes and now we have an app for the Android and the IOS that’s also called The IRS Problem Solver so there’s lots of ways to get in touch with us for sure.

PAT GEORGE:  How many people come to you and just say I’ve got problems and you know they just don’t file.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Oh like lots, like 20 or 30 a month.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Like half of your customer base.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yeah a lot I mean that’s very, very typical sometimes people say and we are not making fun of people here at all because this is real and…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  These are your real clients.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yeah.  Sometimes they just say I have an IRS problem and I say great, can you kind of tell me the story?  No.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  What’s the back story.  No they really, do they really say no?

DARRIN T. MISH:  I haven’t filed in awhile and I say well can you tell me how long is awhile, a long time.

PAT GEORGE:  I have a couple of friends who are exactly like that and I am just shocked that they tell me that they haven’t filed in 8 years.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  You have to give them Darrin’s number 888-get-mish.  And the crazy part is that you and I have talked about this on the show but I don’t think we mention it near enough but the non-filers that are actually employees of a company that are probably due a refund and are missing out cause… what is that time period?

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yeah it’s only 3 years for the refund statute so if you are a wage earner, which means an employee and you have taxes withheld from your paycheck and you haven’t done any funny business you know claim exempt or anything like that but if you just have an appropriate  amount of taxes withheld and you aren’t filing you’re literally just leaving money on the table.  I had a lawyer client who is just a really busy person. She’s a litigator and she’s just always traveling and she had gotten behind and she was a wage earner and she ended up like leaving I forget if it was $15,000 or $25,000 on the table…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  In missed refunds?

DARRIN T. MISH:  Just missed out, didn’t get any credit for it, didn’t get any offset, just lost the money and I mean she wasn’t happy about it but she wasn’t torn apart because she thought that she might owe large amount of money.  So you just got to be really careful about that, if you are a wage earner there really is no reason not to be filing.  Now I’ve heard….

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Now how far back do they have to go again if they haven’t filed?

DARRIN T. MISH:  At least 6 years.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So they have to file for 6 years.

DARRIN T. MISH:  At least 6 years.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  But they are only going to get 3 year’s worth of refunds.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Right, correct.  I have a friend who was in that situation, works at a business that I frequent quite a bit and I’ve been going in there pretty frequently for years and one day he confided in me, hey I haven’t filed in a long time, well aren’t you an employee?  He says yeah, I said ok well I don’t get it, he said well I don’t want to be in the system, I’m like ok….

KATRINA MADEWELL:  You are already in the system buddy.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yeah, dude you are in the system, you have a social security number, you are getting a W-2, you are in the system.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  They know all about you.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yeah you are on the grid this is not going the major, you are not off the grid, you are in the grid it’s just the IRS is not bugging you or wasn’t bugging him because…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  He probably has refunds due why would they.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Right, they know he is overpaying every year and they are not going to like bang his door down to take the…..

KATRINA MADEWELL:  To give them money back.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Exactly.  So let’s get back to our topic here real quick. I shared in a previous segment that I had some things go wrong in my life and I just decided one day, I looked in the mirror and I decided to go ahead and tackle the problem. What I did and what people should do is they need to get enough information to start to devise a plan of sort on how to tackle it. It doesn’t have to be real sophisticated. You know Francis Bacon once said no just power and it’s really true.  I mean what makes us scared, which causes fear and anxiety and inaction in human beings, is the fear of the unknown. So you  got to do a little bit of research and you have to put together a rudimentary plan and the plan could be if you have an IRS problem could be as simple as, I’m going to Google what happens to people who are non-filers and then I’m going to see if they go to prison and once I find out that answer then I’m going to look for people in my local area or even nationally who can help and then I’m going to call that person, contact them, set an appointment and I’m going to see what they have to say, I’m going to find out, how much does it cost to help somebody with this problem, I’m going to see what I’m looking at and what the solutions might be.  That could be the simple plan.  That doesn’t sound really that complicated if you don’t have that problem right?

KATRINA MADEWELL:  No but I would think with someone with that problem the first and biggest question is where do I start?  But they are probably not even thinking to look up all that stuff that you just mentioned.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Ok so as somebody who doesn’t do this day in and day out, I thought it was fun that Pat mentioned that he has friends who are non-filers and if you are not in my business you might think that is a little odd right? Now I just wanted to hug him through the glass right here oh no those are my people, send those people to me cause I can help those guys but tell me if you have somebody who is not dealing with this everyday where do you think you would start?

KATRINA MADEWELL:  See that would be one of those things that I think people would think would be overwhelming, now I host the show with you so of course I would call you but for most people that don’t I would think oh my gosh like where do I start?

DARRIN T. MISH:  One place to start is to just go to the podcast and download some episodes and listen or maybe it’s to get the app and listen because…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Because I think that’s a good resource if someone, they are thinking where do I start but they run across the podcast, they have an IRS problem, that would make me call you.

DARRIN T. MISH:  There’s dozens of episodes and this is not all commercial for me I’m not saying they need to call me necessarily but…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  There’s information, a lot of it.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yeah we talk about the real deal here every day, every week here on the show and we don’t really hold back anything right I mean we talk about how to actually solve them.  Today we are doing a sort of soft topic about how to just deal with the paralysis and get moving.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So the bottom line is how to stop it from bleeding into other areas of your life would be to do something.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yeah you have to take some action.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  You have to do something.

DARRIN T. MISH:  You’ve got to take some action to toward resolving the problem and that’s effective advice for any kind of problem they have, right, I mean if you have a marital problem you have to take some action.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  You have to do something.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Whether that’s counseling…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Stop fighting with your spouse.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Whether that’s you changing your own behavior because let’s face it we cannot change someone else’s behavior.


DARRIN T. MISH:  As much as we like to walk around in life thinking we have all kinds of control over our situation in our lives and so the, I’ve learned for myself the only thing I actually, completely have control over is me.


DARRIN T. MISH:  I don’t have control over this gorgeous little girl who is sitting here to my right Rachel, she will tell you I don’t have any control over her, I can reward certain behaviors and punish other behaviors in an attempt to try to you know….

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Correct course.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Right but, but ultimately I only have control over what I do.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Are you the trouble maker Rachel?

RACHEL:   Sort of.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Are you the one that gets in trouble over Ryan?

RACHEL:   Maybe.

DARRIN T. MISH:  I would say it’s fairly equal.



KATRINA MADEWELL:  Different kinds of trouble.

DARRIN T. MISH:  I don’t know how, I just heard my son just say yeah in my head.  I just heard him say it.

So if he is listening he said you know I’m like ok that’s true.  I think it’s equal.  We only have control over how we behave and it’s really powerful once you realize ok I can’t control my spouse, I can’t control the people I work with but I can control how I react to those people.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So I have a curious question for Pat being that he chimed in a few minutes ago, you have some people who you know that are non-filers why is that?

PAT GEORGE:  They just brag about it I think you know and they kind of own their own companies and things like that and they just go, cause I told them hey it’s tax time you know I got things I have to do, I got to file, Oh I haven’t filed, I don’t need to do that.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So you think that just brag about the fact that they don’t have to pay the returns or…

PAT GEORGE:  That’s exactly what they are doing they are bragging.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  One day they are going to get a letter.

PAT GEORGE:  As a matter of fact they brag a lot more when I tell them they I have to pay.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Man that hurts.


KATRINA MADEWELL:  Well they are going to catch up with you they always do.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Eventually you know those kinds of people are going to end up in some trouble, I don’t know how serious and I’m not here hoping that they do…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  But the failure to not file or not pay taxes is pretty substantial.

DARRIN T. MISH:  The failure to file on a tax return is technically a crime and technically you could go to prison for that and that’s why we have people file the last 6 years of returns because the criminal statute of limitations is only 6 years so once you get passed that 6 years you are kind of home free as far as the crime to file.  It’s a Federal misdemeanor which is not terribly serious but it could land you in Federal prison and I’ve talked to many people who have gone to Federal prison for other things and it’s not a pleasant place, not a place you want to spend a lot of time at even if you go to one of these camps even though there is a reputation that they are pretty nice and you get to go outside and things like that, I still don’t want to spend any time in a Federal prison camp for sure so I’m not here to say that those guys are going to go to prison they probably won’t, it’s just not a way to live in my opinion because how are you going to get a mortgage when you are not filing taxes.


DARRIN T. MISH:  How are you going to get a credit card if you are not filing taxes if you don’t have a credit card you won’t even get a car.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  I don’t think the credit card people care really.  Just saying.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Ok well that could be.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  You know because the interest rates for credit cards are pretty high.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yeah I mean it’s good for the for the lending institutions they might get 15% or 30% or whatever and they are getting what 3 1/2 or 4 on a mortgage…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  A 25% at probably would be worth the risk with unverified income.  At least to the bank that is for sure.

DARRIN T. MISH:  So once you decided to go ahead and do something, you know once you come up with some rudimentary plan of action I think you need to cut yourself some slack, you know stop the negative self-talk, stop talking about how you are a failure or you cause the problem, you did cause the problem ok that’s just the bottom line but continuing to tell yourself that and continuing to beat yourself up about it is not productive, what is productive is deciding to do something about it and  then taking some step on a regular basis to learning how to resolving the problem and then ultimately resolving the problem.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So towards the last part of the show here on the IRS Solution Attorney show we always answer questions from some of the listeners that we get, some of you guys like to Facebook them or Tweet them or email them and we will certainly answer them when we come back from the break cause we hear the music playing but if you want to call in and we will answer those as well 81—- 888-404-1010 Pat George back there trying to mess me up 888-404-1010 you got me today, you are listening to the IRS Attorney show we will be back in a minute.

(commercial break)

DARRIN T. MISH:  Welcome back to the IRS Solution Attorney show I’m THE IRS Solution Attorney Darrin T. Mish…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Birthday boy, birthday boy.

DARRIN T. MISH:  This song is a lot harder to do air guitar to though, I guess I could keep clapping.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Yeah that is more like the style yeah.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Clapping makes noise and it sounds really bad on air.

RACHEL:   You just need classical guitar.


KATRINA MADEWELL:  Are you playing guitar?

DARRIN T. MISH:  Who? Rachel?




DARRIN T. MISH:  Yes well she has a guitar I believe. I think we have a guitar and a bass at our house and I don’t think anybody is actively playing them but we do in fact have them.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  I’ll have to come over and Chris will show you how to play that thing.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yeah, her husband is an extraordinary guitar player. He played in Nashville a couple of weeks ago?

KATRINA MADEWELL:   You could see him in Mayfest. Quite an experience. Not so much for the wives but for them.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yeah it looked amazing, I saw it on Facebook live from Katrina Madewell.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  I think we should stream live now what do you think?

DARRIN T. MISH:  At some point in time we need to be streaming the show live for sure, I think the headache is the technicalities of getting the show feed into the phone in our technical limitations here at 1010 money talk.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  No we didn’t throw Charlie under the bus at all that was not intentional just saying, that was not intentional.

DARRIN T. MISH:  So let’s go to the questions I think we have a couple of them.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Questions of the week: Mark has a question he says is there an age limit on claiming my child as a dependent, that’s actually a pretty good question I think.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yes so this is  kind of a complicated answer but I will give you sort of the nutshell thing, they either have to be younger than 19 years old or 24 years old if they are a student or they can be any age if they are permanently and totally disabled and then there’s always a qualifying relic test if you are providing more then 51% of support for any qualifying relative then they could always be claimed as a dependent as well so you could claim, you know, your mother and father you know  kids, cousins..

KATRINA MADEWELL: So if they are living with you and you are supporting them?

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yeah if you are providing support then you could claim them as a qualifying relative but generally speaking the answer for qualifying child is 19 years old or younger or 24 years old if they are a full time student or no matter how old they are if they are permanently or totally disabled.  Now one of the funniest things was the child has to be younger then you.  Now think about that, it actually says that in the code they have to be younger then the tax payer.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  As far as a child goes but not a parent.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Right the child has to be younger then the taxpayer claimed them as a child.

KATRINA MADEWELL:   What are you going to adopt somebody older then you.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yeah I’m not even sure how that could work so I’m not sure why Congress put that in the code.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Well that explains a lot.

DARRIN T. MISH:  It does Congress, anytime you say Congress, right?

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So our next question is from Alex and he wants to know “How do I know if I file Quarterly, individual estimated tax payments”?  How does he know if he has to file?

DARRIN T. MISH:  Generally speaking if you had a tax liability last year then you have a requirement to file estimated tax payments this year. So we will do the math and make it real easy. Let’s say you owed a thousand dollars last year. Technically you only have to pay 90% of that as an estimated tax but we are going to ignore that real for a second but if you owed a thousand dollars from last year what I would like to see you do as your attorney is make 4 quarterly payments of $250.  Now what I would like to see more than that is, I would like to see you make monthly payments instead of quarterly payments because it would be a lot less likely that you would fall behind.  Now my clients would more typically owe $10,000 or $100,000 during the year so those numbers get really big really fast.  But that is generally the rule is you know when you have the obligation to make the Quarterly individual estimated tax payments. On the other hand, if you didn’t owe last year but something has changed and you are now self-employed, you weren’t self-employed last year but you are now then I think you should be making estimated tax payments now, I’m not sure if you are absolutely, categorically required to but I think you should.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So there was a headline, I’m just curious how much you know about it with the IRS adding text message passcodes what’s that about do you know?

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yeah this is pretty cool this just came out just yesterday as a matter of fact and I learned about it on a website called and so there was a, in 2015 hackers got the tax records of over 700,000 taxpayers in the United States and they had a lot, the hackers had a lot of information about the tax payers and they got even more when they hacked into the IRS accounts.  So the IRS has decided to add this text passcode verification so that…banks use it like my bank uses it when I do payroll I have to log in to the site and then I click a button and it sends me a code to my phone and then I take that code and it lets me all the way in so the IRS….

KATRINA MADEWELL:  I think they should do that all the time for banking but they don’t.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yeah, so the IRS is going to be doing something like that, just came out in the last 24 hours so it remains to be seen how well it’s going to work. We don’t really know and there have been a number of other instances where hackers have still been able to hack even using the text code sort of thing.  So we will see, I’m happy to see the IRS trying to do something about it because it is a big problem.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So that sounds….

PAT GEORGE:  I worked hard on that to try to scare Rachel and she didn’t move one bit.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  You know she is the bold one of the family I can tell.

DARRIN T. MISH:  So, that train wreck sound is the sound of the segment which is the IRS train wreck of the week.  In this segment I do is talk about somebody that comes in usually with a sizeable IRS problem and we talk about how after we represented them that the tax problem is miraculously solved so in this case…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Miraculously it just automatically magic happens.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yes so in this case it was a gentleman who actually lives in Washington DC, I represent clients from all over the country not just Florida and this gentleman called me and he had a really, really sad story.  He was a three-time cancer survivor ok it’s bad enough I mean it’s good he survived but it’s bad enough that he got cancer 3 times but he’s also has an active case of AIDS.


DARRIN T. MISH:  So I mean like this guy has a lot of trouble in his life and he owed the IRS…

PAT GEORGE:  Tax problems.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yeah and tax problems and he owed the IRS $38,999.70 just shy of $39,000 and he would, we were talking about the problem and I knew that you know he is fully disabled so his income was dramatically reduced and he did have one asset he owned a house in Washington DC and so DC you know is an expensive housing market right?


DARRIN T. MISH:  And so that was one of the things discerning in the case because the value of the house is supposed to be looked at to determine his ability to pay and so…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  How does the value of the house tie into that just curious.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Well if you have, let’s say you owed 39 grand and you have a 100 grand equity into the house you could afford to pay it I mean theoretically on paper you could afford to pay it.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  I don’t know if the lenders would say that but ok.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Right but for IRS Offer in Compromises purposes which is what we did in this case the equity in that asset comes into play and so we had a very long conversation about how much was his house worth and so on and so forth and he says no Darrin on paper it might be worth a lot but you don’t understand this place is like it’s falling apart and so what we did is we went ahead and took pictures and we sent them into the IRS and long story short we filed an Offer in Compromise and we just settled day before yesterday for $3,705.00 so it makes me feel really good that this gentleman who has had significant health problems and is still going actively through AIDS that he doesn’t have to worry about the IRS because I was concerned the IRS problem was going to shorten his life ultimately.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Well you are listening to the IRS Solution Attorney show with Mr. Darrin T. Mish, I’m your co-host Katrina Madewell, Pat George back there on the board making a fantastic show….

PAT GEORGE:  Happy Birthday Darrin.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  As always you could get Darrin at 888-get-mish 888-get-mish and he is on Twitter…

DARRIN T. MISH:  darrin_mish is the website.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Thanks so much for joining us this week.

DARRIN T. MISH:  We’re out.

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