What to Bring With You When You Meet With a Tax Attorney

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DARRIN T. MISH: Well that would be me I am Darrin T. Mish a Tax Attorney from Tampa.  I’m joined again today by Tampa Real Estate agent extraordinaire.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Katrina Madewell that’s me.

DARRIN T. MISH: Katrina Madewell, she’s the host of her own show Tampa home talk that’s here on 1010 am on Friday mornings at 9.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Tomorrow morning at 9, same time, same place different day.  I can verify I am indeed here with Mr. Mish.

DARRIN T. MISH: She has a lovely voice, she is always enthusiastic and pleasant to be around so and her show is really great cause she always has guests from all kinds of things that are just kind of barely related to real estate.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  They are all related to real estate, our guest…

PAT: How about the one last week, Pooh prints, oh yeah they were definitely related to real estate.

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KATRINA MADEWELL:  Pat I thought I was going to throw up on that show last week with his jokes.

DARRIN T. MISH: Well that’s sort of interesting.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  I’m not even going to say it because I will just get sick, no really no but tomorrows show is Hillsborough Title they’re our partner and they are going to come in, we are going to talk about (inaudible) on title actually tomorrow.

DARRIN T. MISH: Nice that actually has something to do with what we do and that when the IRS files tax liens. In fact I have one right now that is pending, it’s kind of a big mess, the insurance company, there was an insurance claim for roof damage and the IRS  had filed a tax lien and the insurance company put the Internal Revenue Service on the payee line of the check and so now like they can’t get the roof fixed because the IRS wants the money and the house is going to be spoiled and damaged…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  That’s a Mexican standoff.

DARRIN T. MISH: So we will get that worked out somehow, I don’t know this is one of the rare cases where somebody brought be a fact pattern and I’m like really, I have no clue at this point but we will get it figured out.  It’s one of the great things about my job honestly is that people bring me their big messes and I get to figure it out.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  It’s always something new, like no two cases are probably ever alike.

DARRIN T. MISH: Yeah that’s one of the things that was really attractive to me about going to law school is that if I had to just work in a factory and pull a lever all day and crank widgets out I would not, it wouldn’t suit me.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Your mind would be like over here doing something else and…

DARRIN T. MISH: And so I don’t actually like to do puzzles at home and I think the reason is because my job is just one gigantic puzzle and I’m doing like a couple hundred of them at a time and you are trying to figure all the pieces and how everything is going to work out but hopefully…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Makes sense to me.

DARRIN T. MISH: But thankfully my personality is well suited to that, I like to win and I like loop holes and I like, I like to help people with their problems.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Now that is an attorney statement if I’ve ever heard one.  I like to win, I like loop holes how does that sound Pat?

DARRIN T. MISH: I love know things that other people don’t know not because I have some kind of superiority complex but really because it helps me create the power that is my practice.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Well that’s your niche.

DARRIN T. MISH: Exactly, exactly.  So today we are going to talk about what you need to bring with you when you meet with a Tax Attorney because it’s amazing how often I speak with people and they sit down with me for their initial consultation and I say so what’s going on and they say I owe the IRS the money ok…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  I hope that is why you are here.

DARRIN T. MISH: Like how much money answer a lot, oh ok well how much is a lot…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  What’s a lot?

DARRIN T. MISH: Because a lot is contextual right because if I owed the IRS money 500 bucks is a lot.  But I represent clients all the time that you know 100,000 to half a million.  Now that actually is a lot but it depends on if you are the person who they are looking to get the money from.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  And that depends on what your income is in relation to what that debt is.

DARRIN T. MISH: Yeah and I think even more importantly what are your assets what’s your assets situation because if you owe a lot and you know you are a renter and you have essentially no assets then hey that is relatively simple to take care of usually if your income is modest.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  You know we could probably gear today’s show so that all the shows are available on a podcast and you could actually push this over to some folks before the appointment and then have them be a little more prepared when they get there.

DARRIN T. MISH: Fabulous that’s a great idea.

PAT: So are you telling us that some people come in just empty handed and other people come in with a hand cart and a bunch white boxes.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Well think about it Pat, like if you came to Darrin and you had a IRS issue and you owed a 100 grand…

PAT: I would be carrying a box.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  What are you going to bring, what would you bring what’s in the box?

PAT: Every record I could possibly find that would have anything to do with this problem.

DARRIN T. MISH: Well that would be good and bad right so sometimes people bring the hand cart and there are 2 bankers boxes in there and there’s no organization to the paperwork and it’s just like basically a giant…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Just like the accountant somebody has to charge you to sort through all of that data.

DARRIN T. MISH: That’s better than bringing nothing for sure but at some point somebody has got to look thru the box and kind of figure it out.  What’s interesting to me is people would say well a lot can you tell me what kind of tax.  No…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  No, they tell you no?

DARRIN T. MISH: So we need to know is that 1040 tax, so is it income tax, is it payroll tax, is it you know what kind of tax is it, sales tax.  Interestingly a lot of times we get a lot of calls on a regular basis for people who owe money to the State Department of Revenue, the Florida state department of revenue and we  don’t even handle those kinds of cases because they are essentially sales tax cases cause we don’t have personal income tax in Florida and so it’s interesting a lot of people don’t make that distinction they just think tax equals IRS but you might be in another state listening to this and you know you have a state taxing authority as well.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Let’s take a caller real quick, I think we have Rich is that right Pat?

PAT: That’s correct.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Looks like we are in talent mode so we are good, I won’t botch this up like I did on my show last week.  Hi welcome to the IRS Solution Attorney show.

RICH:    Hello, how are you?

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Good, how are you Rich?

RICH:    Doing well, doing well. I have a question, back probably about 14 years ago or maybe a little bit less, I lived in the state of South Carolina  and I ran a business and had some State tax withholding issues due to poor reporting, totally my fault.  But it’s been so many, so many years ago and I settle some of that debt with the State and still on credit reporting I see that they keep refreshing these debts, like they never go away, they never fall off after 10 years as I have been told they would…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  I’m curious Rich is that debt already paid?  Did you already pay that to them?

RICH:    Some of them have been satisfied that is correct and going back that many years it’s very difficult to find all of the bank statements and things where I had satisfied or at least sent in what they requested to abolish that old debt.  Now there was some that was still, you know they were insurmountable. I couldn’t pay it all so that’s when I stopped bailing the water and just let the ship sink and closed the business.

DARRIN T. MISH: Rich this is Darrin.

RICH:    Hello, Darrin.

DARRIN T. MISH: There’s obviously every state has different state laws and statues of limitations and what not and while Katrina was speaking with you I looked it up and South Carolina actually does have a statute of limitations for collections that is exactly the same as the IRS it is 10 years from the date of the assessment of the tax and so what happens is people don’t understand what the assessment of the tax means and that essentially means when the tax became due and owing so a lot of times if you don’t file a tax return for  years, if it’s years late or if they state or the IRS files a tax return for you that’s called a substitute for return that could take 5,6,7 years before they file that substitute for return and that additional tax is assessed so they could just be that the 10 years hasn’t run from the date of the assessment or it actually could just be an erroneous reporting issue on the credit agency, the other thing is if there’s a state tax lien and the statute of limitations has expired then you  probably need to get a release of that tax lien filed, I don’t know what they call it in South Carolina but the clerk’s office or the recorder’s office, sometimes they call it the comptroller’s office and you can get, potentially get a released filed by the state so that could start to fix your credit.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  The other thing we see too a lot just to chime on the credit piece since I handle, since I see that a lot on the real estate side, we see a lot of times often these old debts even though they are past the time period  they are allowed to report, they resell these things for pennies on the dollar to other collection agencies and then they sort of start re-reporting again, it’s sort of a gray area they are not allowed to do it however we see that they do it all the time so you  have to dispute that kind of stuff and we even have attorney’s  that we will refer them to that handle nothing but this type of stuff.

RICH:    That’s great information I have one last question on the very same topic, if this state tax is still say within the 10-year period is there a possibly that if I hold property in the state of Florida they could attach that lien that state tax lien to my property held in the state of Florida?

DARRIN T. MISH: It’s theoretically possible that the state of South Carolina could domesticate that lien in Florida and get it filed in Florida, most of the state taxing agencies are not that sophisticated and I’ve never seen it, you know knock on wood that it doesn’t happen in your case.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  I’m curious how much is that tax Rich, how much are we talking about? What do you think you owe?

RICH:    Well they put a penalties and interest included and it was about $72,000 and then I sat down with the state tax office and again this is my memory trying to go back so many years…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  I’ll tell you what Rich hang on just a second because we have to take a quick break but we will be back in a minute and then we will try to resume this question and answer a little more in detail we will pick you up off air hold on just a minute.  You are listening to the IRS Solution Attorney radio show with Mr. Darrin T. Mish, I’m your co-host Katrina Madewell we have to take a quick break when we come back we are going to finish up Rich’s question.  You are listening to money talk 1010 back in a minute.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Thanks Pat George you are listening to money talk 1010 this is the IRS Solution Attorney show almost like started blabbering and saw that we were lit up, we were live.

DARRIN T. MISH: Well we took care of Rich’s question off air just because there was a lot of details and what not but…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Just recap what it is and let’s give out your office number because there may be someone else listening that’s, that has the same question.

DARRIN T. MISH: Ok so Rich basically had a question that he was living in South Carolina and he had a payroll tax problem, a state payroll tax problem and it’s been over 20 years now and he was wondering well why is that still showing up on my credit report and what we are going to do is hook up Rich with a South Carolina tax attorney who’s more familiar with dealing with whatever they call the South Carolina department of revenue and figure…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  That’s the state tax for a business?

DARRIN T. MISH: Yeah, yeah and how to get that lien released so it will stop showing up on his credit report.  The number at the office is 888-438-6474, that spells out 888-get-mish that’s get-mish that’s 888-438-6474.  So today we are talking about What do you need to bring with you when you meet with me or any other tax attorney and we were talking about you know a lot of the people come into my office and they basically bring nothing they, except for a story is pretty thin to, the story is they owe a lot of money.  So in order to help the professional it’s a good idea to do what Pat George said which is well not exactly what….

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Bring your shoe box?

DARRIN T. MISH: Which is not exactly what Pat said. He says bring every piece of paper you’ve ever generated in your life.

PAT: I would have everything organized.

DARRIN T. MISH: Ok well that would be really fantastic so….

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Wait you or your wife would organize it before you came in.

PAT: Oh trust me I am a Virgo I would have it organized.

DARRIN T. MISH: I really like organized people it helps me do my job better.  But at the very, very least we are going to have a bunch of suggestions here but at the very least bring the most recent correspondence bill or correspondence that you got from the IRS, I mean that tells me a whole bunch of information right there, it tells me what kind of tax it is, what the basic liability amount is, what years it’s for….

PAT: Sorry Darrin that’s what I forgot.

DARRIN T. MISH: Yeah where we are in the process, just that last letter is really helpful and that brings up something else that comes to mind and that clients will often say well I got a certified mail slip at the house but I work so I didn’t go pick up the mail…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So what does that mean?

DARRIN T. MISH: And then when I went to go pick it up it wasn’t there anymore and that’s kind of like the head slapping moment right I mean cause there’s, there’s serious…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  What happens if they don’t go pick up the mail?

DARRIN T. MISH: It just gets returned to the IRS and if it was one of these letters that’s certified but not particularly important like what we call form CP 504 then that’s not terribly important but if it’s a letter that’s called a LT 11 a final notice of intent to levy and you don’t go pick that up it could be pretty bad cause you have a right to file an appeal on the LT 11 on the final notice of intent to levy and you might very well want to file an appeal cause the filing of the appeal in a timely fashion stops all collection action at least with regard to that particular tax liability so yeah if you guys get certified notices you know I know I totally get it you know not a lot of good news comes certified mail but if you are going to have bad news I think you would rather know about it then put your head in the sand and be the ostrich which is what a lot of people do and that’s not, although it might temporarily feel good it’s not ever a good idea.

PAT: Let me tell you a story that happened to me and I’m going to tell you this because I know my wife is not listening right now.


DARRIN T. MISH: She’s not listening to the show?

PAT: Some days but I know she’s not today because she is doing something but and I don’t want anybody out there to tell her this but she got a certified letter from the IRS one day and she knows how stressed she thinks I am and she didn’t want me to know about this so she thought she would take care of it and she thought she could settle it and months went down the road and finally I received a paycheck from work and it was $17.00…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  They garnished your wages?

PAT: Oh yeah that is how I found out.

DARRIN T. MISH: So we have been doing this show together for months and I’ve never heard that story.

PAT: That’s how I found out.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  What was it for?

PAT: It was for some kind of tax bill that…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Wait some kind of tax bill?

DARRIN T. MISH: That’s exactly what we are talking about on the show today.

PAT: It was like 15-20 years ago…


PAT: It was money that we owed.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Like was it you filed your taxes, you owed money and you didn’t pay it?  That kind of money?

PAT: Something like that and you know I think we owed some money she thought she was going to be able to pay it and the interest got her and finally she didn’t keep answering and talking to them and they garnished my wages.

DARRIN T. MISH: Did you get the letter released or did they….

PAT: Oh yeah I took care of it rather quickly you know.

DARRIN T. MISH: A lot of times when the IRS levy’s you know your bank account or your wages it’s really not so much to collect the money it’s to figuratively grab you by the shoulders and shake you by the shoulders and shake you and say hello McFly wake up….

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Now I’m trying to remember the rules and we have done the show for a while can they do it again the next month?  Like every week?

DARRIN T. MISH: Ok so great question a wage garnishment is continuous so it continues until paid.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  They continue….

PAT: Oh yeah.

DARRIN T. MISH: A bank levy is not continuous.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  That is where they swoop your bank account, that’s what I’m mixing up.

DARRIN T. MISH: When they swoop, that’s a technical term.  When they swoop your bank account, when they go ahead and put the levy on your bank account it’s a one-time levy, it is not continuous so the bank is supposed to process the levy on say a Monday and on Tuesday you can use your account, you can put more money in there but the IRS is only entitled to the money in the bank account on the day the levy was processed so in this case Monday, whatever was in there on Monday.  If the IRS gets lucky and you just got paid well that’s really bad and if they get unlucky and there was $1.32 in there then it’s not as bad.  So a lot of times when we…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So how long did it take to unwind that I’m curious Pat like how long did it take you where they did not garnish your wages and you got a $17.00 check and then I’m curious to know how long it takes Darrin to get that unwound.

PAT: As quick as I could get money from my savings or my 401k back in those days.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  How much was owed, can I ask?  Too much, TMI.

PAT: $19,000.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Ok that’s not bad.

PAT: So you know luckily…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Compared to some of the tax stories we talk about, that’s not a bad thing.  I don’t owe the IRS $19,000 but.

PAT: So yeah as quick as I could get a 10 day, it’s going to take 10 days to get that money and it was done but.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So then did you have a tax penalty for withdrawing from your retirement?

PAT: Oh yes, oh yeah.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  That’s the domino effect.  Snowball here.

DARRIN T. MISH: Yeah it’s a double edge sword, it’s a vicious cycle.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So how long does it take you to get those, is it garnished wages stopped?  Like what’s the technical term?

DARRIN T. MISH: Anywhere, levy is the technical term, anywhere from a day to never…


DARRIN T. MISH: Just depends on the circumstances of the case.  If all the tax returns are filed and all we really need to do is put into effect either a hardship determination where the IRS just agrees that you can’t afford to pay anything or you are going to do an installment agreement which is, we call it a properly structured payment plan then you can do it the same day if there’s missing returns, let’s say in my example there’s 10 years of missing corporate returns and 10 years of missing personal returns you know we have a problem and that it’s a lot bigger deal.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  It’s a bigger issue.

DARRIN T. MISH: It’s a lot bigger deal because the filing of the missing tax returns is essentially a prerequisite to you know getting the levy released so it can be….

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So they’re like a dog that’s not going to let go if you have like this domino effect thing going on and you have not filed tax returns.

DARRIN T. MISH: Yeah and it’s really common actually for people who get levied to have missing tax returns, I mean it’s super common which is how they ended up in that place to begin with thru procrastination or fear or whatever.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So what was your story Pat did you owe just one time, one-year current on everything else or did owe a bunch of returns?

PAT: Just one time.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So his scenario would be easy?

DARRIN T. MISH: Yeah his was probably relatively easy that was probably an installment agreement, a properly structured payment plan.

PAT:   No it wasn’t I paid it off.  It was a debt that is gone.

KATRINA MADEWELL:   He paid them off.  $17.00 I can’t work all week for $17.00.

PAT: I didn’t know you then, if I knew you I, you would of been getting a phone call from me.

DARRIN T. MISH: Yeah what happened is Pat…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  He would come to the studio and would say Darrin we got to talk.

DARRIN T. MISH: No offense but Pat freaked out and just gave them all their money cause giving them all their money was less painful then you know then having $17.00 paychecks.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So well you probably could have settled that for less right.

DARRIN T. MISH: Maybe, I don’t know.  I don’t know, you know I always hear radio show guys or radio producers always complain how little money they make, I don’t know maybe we could of, just depends.  Now he is on the phone so he can’t even interact with us but.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  It’s the whole picture.  So you are listening to Money Talk 1010 the IRS Solution Attorney show we’ve been a little off our outline this morning but I’m sure you don’t mind so if you have a question you can call us at 888-404-1010, 888-404-1010.  But we were trying to talk about things to bring to the office when you have to meet the attorney.

DARRIN T. MISH: Yeah so here’s an example if you, if you have an audit notice you know let’s say, and right now we are doing a lot of audits we are getting a lot of audits for 2013 and 14.  I just saw a guy had an audit for 2015 and I was thinking wow I mean…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  They are on their A-game.

DARRIN T. MISH: That’s early but doing a lot of audits for 13-14, bring copies of the tax returns cause if you just bring the audit letter which hopefully you bring to the appointment so I can see what issues they want to audit then bring the original return to because number 1 we have to give the IRS another copy of the return.  Seems weird right but that’s, they want a copy of the original return but I can’t help you determine what was wrong potentially with the original return if I don’t have a copy of it.  So that’s helpful, another thing….

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So I wonder if we should almost outline this like if you owe this tax then bring this, if you owe this tax then bring that right because they vary a little bit based on what the appointments about?  Something like that.

DARRIN T. MISH: Yeah it may vary a little bit.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  That music just keeps up right awake.

PAT: Scared me.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  You are listening to the IRS Solution Attorney show here on Money Talk 1010 if you have a question like Rich feel free to call us we would love to answer it 888-404-1010, 888-404-1010 I will help facilitate the conversation and Darrin the expert will answer it 888-404-1010 we will be back in a minute.

PAT: Right before we get back can I tell you about a problem we have on Eastbound I-4?


PAT: On I-4 we got an accident blocking 2 lanes, the backup starts around mile marker 48 and goes to mile marker 55 so it’s between 557 Old Grade Rd. and 27 so if you are heading out to the House of the Mouse you are in a big long delay, 2 lanes blocked because of an accident.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  It’s a little late for traffic at this hour now isn’t it?

PAT: Not when you are on I-4 and you are heading east or west bound anywhere between Orlando and Tampa, people tell me if you don’t make it there by 6:30 in the morning you are in that traffic jam all day.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  You know I used to make that commute because I lived in Tampa and went to college in Orlando.

PAT: How much fun was that?

KATRINA MADEWELL:  It was a lot different back then.

PAT: Oh ok that’s right that’s when it was only 2 lanes or was it 1 lane back then.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  No it was not 1 lane that was back in your day Pat.

DARRIN T. MISH: It was a dusty you know horse path.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  You know we do this show every week but Darrin he has like 3 or 4 more books than that, how many books do you have out Darrin?

DARRIN T. MISH: I have a number of chapter books just where I was a contributing author for a chapter but I have 3 books that I’m the sole author of, one is the IRS Battle guide, the other is 7 Secrets that the IRS Doesn’t want you to know about and the third is IRS Insider Secrets.

PAT: And these are all fiction books?

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Yeah something like that.  Get them on Amazon or Kindle and how about if we give a couple away.

PAT: That’s up to Darrin.

DARRIN T. MISH: Yeah that sounds like a great idea, I think the IRS Battle guide is, I’m really proud of that it’s basically an entire guide on now to take on the IRS and win.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Ok so if you are listening to Money Talk 1010 right now give us a call and we will give the first couple of callers a book The IRS Battle Guide 888-404-1010 and it might not even be for you it might be for somebody else that you know that may have an issue with the book you can call us at 888-404-1010.

DARRIN T. MISH: So we are talking about what you need to bring when you meet with a tax attorney, when you have a tax problem and another suggestion would be if you had a prior you know representative of some sort professional helping you and you had filled out a power of attorney which is sort of the ticket to admission right, the power of attorney with the IRS is filed and it tells the IRS that you want this professional to represent you.  Be a good idea to bring that with you so that we can see you know, we can see what is going on what was put on the power of attorney and if it’s like your tax preparer that just happens to have a power of attorney then if I file a power of attorney it’s going to knock him off automatically, but there is a way if I know about it that I can keep their power of attorney in place so that we don’t inadvertently knock out your…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So they only allow one at a time?

DARRIN T. MISH: Unless you tell them specifically yeah.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Specifically.

DARRIN T. MISH: Because it is really common for us to get cases after they’ve visited someone else either in the community here or one of the big firms and I’m not going to say their names but there are big firms that advertise on the radio, satellite radio and TV a lot and have celebrity spokes people that used to be on TV shows, stuff like that.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Gotcha.  But you know if you call Darrin’s office you are going to get somebody real, a real local guy but you can meet for really real that is an attorney that can answer your question.

DARRIN T. MISH: With lots of experience.

PAT: It will be a good idea if you, if they call in and they get this book and they get audited to take it with them and slap that down right on the desk as soon as they sit down in front of their auditor.  Say this is step 1.


DARRIN T. MISH: Be as aggressive as possible during the audit yeah.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  That always works out while on the guilty from the IRS.

PAT: This is step 1 if it doesn’t work I’m bringing the author next time.

DARRIN T. MISH: The irony and you don’t know this is the cover of that, that particular book is a full length photo of me and so yeah that would be kind of funny.

PAT: That is what I would do.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Money talk 1010 888-404-1010, 888-404-1010 if you have a question for Darrin or if you would like the IRS Battle Guide or if you know someone who needs it call in and we will be happy to give you a copy 888-404-1010.

DARRIN T. MISH: So let’s talk about some questions you might want to ask of a tax attorney if you have a tax problem and you are sitting in the office and you are trying to figure out if they know what they are doing and if it’s a good fit.   So one of the questions that came to mind was how many cases like mine have you handled and you know a good practitioner would say well gee I’ve never had one just like yours if that’s the case but I think I’m still, we can handle it because of x,y and z or they might say oh I’ve handled dozens, or hundreds or thousands of cases just like yours and let me tell you a little bit about somehow those turned out.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  They are similar but yet they are probably all different.

DARRIN T. MISH: Yeah it’s funny when I’m meeting with prospects and they kind of tell me about their situation, I just intuitively start to tell them stories about other people that had similar situations and how those cases turned out and that’s just what  years and years of experience gives you like oh yeah this is just like the Jones matter back in ’97 or whatever and I think that that really helps put people at ease because when they come into a tax attorney’s office because they owe the IRS more money than they can afford to pay they’re usually pretty nervous.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Well they can relate they are like oh those people are like me and he helped them.

DARRIN T. MISH: Exactly and that’s what we are going for is like you know there is lots of people in your same circumstances and there is a way out.  The biggest thing is people just end up being paralyzed, a lot of people end up being paralyzed just by the thought of the problem being so big especially once you get into 6 figures a lot of times it’s super overwhelming.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  It’s scary, it’s a lot of money.

DARRIN T. MISH: Yeah I’m not going to lie if I didn’t know what I knew, know now and I owed 6 figures to the IRS I would be pretty concerned about it.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  It’s like owing 6 figures to the devil, it’s pretty scary.  I’m just saying.

PAT: I noticed something on your Facebook radar and I didn’t catch it all this week that you went to the Tampa office instead of the Pinellas office, the St. Pete. office and then but you won what was that about?

DARRIN T. MISH: Yeah I don’t know if I won or not yet cause that audit is still ongoing but here is what happened is… in the local area here we have 2 field offices, well actually there is more than that I’m not talking about Lakeland and places that are further out of town.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Ironically one is like a rock throw away from the station.

DARRIN T. MISH: Yeah so there is one in Tampa and it’s not too far from my office and then there is one over here in St. Petersburg and we are right next to it right now in the studio, I mean we are not like 5 feet from it but we are about 50 yards away and so earlier this week I was just kind of on autopilot and I drove over to the IRS office in Tampa and the funny thing is they have real strict security, they have 2 security guards there that are armed, they have metal detectors and all that stuff and those guys  are always really officious, I mean I go in there pretty regularly and you’d think by now they would recognize me.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Be on first name basis.

DARRIN T. MISH: And so they are giving me like a hard time and they are wanting to wand me all this stuff which is fine but they are asking me who am I here to see and I’m telling them the name and they are both looking at me like you know like I am dumb and turns out I was because I was in the wrong place, I was actually supposed to go to St. Petersburg not Tampa but I was on autopilot you know and I just kind of drove where I thought I was going and so I had to call the auditor and say hey I’m in Tampa….

KATRINA MADEWELL:  I’m at your office just the wrong one.

DARRIN T. MISH: I’m in Tampa I’m coming over to St. Pete I will be there in about 15 minutes and she appreciated that it was no big deal but yeah even sometimes I go to the wrong place.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Darrin posted a bunch of really good stuff on Twitter to you can get him @darrin_mish.

DARRIN T. MISH: That’s @darrin_mish.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  And we did get a question there so that’s why I wanted to mention it and pose it so someone just said that I received a commission check from a former affiliate partner for a tidy sum, tidy sum was over 3 years ago late getting it, what in the heck is this?

D: Ok I just received a commission check from a former affiliate partner for a tidy sum, it was over 3 years late in getting to us having completely forgotten about the money that was due us we didn’t pursue it at that time, now that we have it should we report the income on this year’s return or amend our return from 3 years ago?

KATRINA MADEWELL:  That was worded a little weird.  Kind of threw me off.

DARRIN T. MISH: Well you know not everybody is perfect.  So the question really is doing we have to pay the tax now or do we have to try and go back and amend the return for the year that we should have gotten the tax payment?  And the answer is if you are a cash basis taxpayer like most of us are then you are just going to go ahead and put it on this year’s tax return and you are going to go ahead and pay the tax again this year for the current year, if you are an accrual basis tax payer which almost nobody listening is.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  What is that?

DARRIN T. MISH: That’s the kind of situation where you invoice a client, let’s say you invoice a client for $100 and you go ahead and put that on your books as $100 earned and then if they don’t pay the $100 then you can write that off as bad debt but you just kind of assume they are going to pay the invoice.  It’s not the right situation for most people and smallest businesses it’s better for larger businesses and large corporations.  So it’s not really relevant in this particular question but if he got the check in this year than he is going to pay the tax in this year, pretty simple really.  But I can see how it could be confusing.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So Ted sent in a political question, you got to love those we will tread lightly but he says do you think it’s a big deal that Donald Trump is not going to be releasing his tax records until after the election?

DARRIN T. MISH: It’s my understanding that Trump and Trump’s organization is under audit which may or may not be for political purpose itself who knows but he is a bigger company and bigger companies tend to get audited at a higher rate than individuals do so if I was his counsel I would not want him releasing his tax records at all until  the audit was over because it’s not, or may not be a true and accurate reflection of his tax situation, I don’t really know what the big deal is behind political candidates  releasing their tax returns.  Remember in 4 years ago….

KATRINA MADEWELL:  I don’t think it’s relevant.

DARRIN T. MISH: Remember 4 years ago when the, who’s the guy Harry Reed basically said that you know Mitt Romney doesn’t pay any taxes at all?

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Right I do remember that vaguely.

DARRIN T. MISH: And then it turned out that of course that wasn’t true but all the damage was done.  I don’t know, I don’t think it’s that big a deal that Trump isn’t releasing his tax records.  I would actually respect him less if he did pay a lot of taxes because that means that somebody who has the means to do all the planning in the world, hire all the best professionals and people to minimize his taxes and he didn’t do that?  Now what kind of President is going to do that you know not take advantage of all the advantages of the office and what not, I don’t mean for personal or political gain I just mean in general.  I mean the law says that we’re entitled in fact we should take advantage of all deductions and all advantages we can to pay the minimal required legal tax.  So if Donald Trump’s tax rate is 35% or what not he’s a terrible business man and he has no business being President of the United States.  Now on the other hand if he is paying 8% that is a pretty efficient guy I think assuming that’s legal and lawful, I think that would bode well for him.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  I think it should be a straight tax anyway, I don’t think it’s fair that they tax the rich more.

DARRIN T. MISH: I tend to agree with you.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  I don’t like that.

DARRIN T. MISH: You know it’s based on this mentality that the rich somehow are evil or unfair or something like that, but if you see the stats of how much tax revenue, what percentage of tax revenue gets paid by like the top 1-3% it’s like all of it basically.  Everybody under 3% pays virtually you know hardly any of it.  But…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  But I mean for a straight 10% tax rate I mean fair is fair right whether you make 10,000, 100,000 or a million, 10% of your income is 10% of your income.

DARRIN T. MISH: And there are arguments that actually would generate more tax revenue then our current system but we won’t know because it will never happen.


PAT: I don’t think there is ever going to be reform of any type.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  There’s got to be.

DARRIN T. MISH: Well there will be some kind of reform at some point.  We need simplification big time because people you know tax attorneys and accountants and what not basically have to spend their entire careers just learning just one little tiny section of the code.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Well you are listening to the IRS Solution Attorney show with Mr. Darrin T. Mish we will give you an IRS Battle Guide if you would like to call in on-air we will give it to you 888-404-1010 that will tell you how to fight the IRS and win or you can just call Darrin directly but we are here in studio today 888-404-1010 we will be back in a minute and we will talk about some story headlines in the news.

DARRIN T. MISH: Welcome back to the IRS Solution Attorney Show I am THE IRS Solution Attorney Darrin T. Mish, if you are liking the bumper music there, I sure do its Don Gates and Company, Katrina’s husband is in the band and I think they are just super well produced.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Mid-life crisis.  Just kidding.

DARRIN T. MISH: They sound really good I mean they sound like…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Thank you they will be glad to hear that.

DARRIN T. MISH: They sound like kind of old school country a little bit, it’s not, it’s pop for you.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Well they got invited to the CMA fest and the funny part is Don used to do like Thresh or metal.  Isn’t it funny.

DARRIN T. MISH: Yeah I actually represent one of the current thresher metal guy and we were talking at one point in time and he is like yeah I really should have gone the country route cause it’s a lot more popular you know now then his particular genre but he is like now I’m all tatted up and…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Oh he is to.  You know I don’t think it matters now.

DARRIN T. MISH: Yeah I think tattoos are really main stream at this point in time.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Like if you don’t have a tattoo you are not normal, you are not part of the norm of society.

DARRIN T. MISH: Yeah you know in the interest of full disclosure I do not have a tattoo.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  I don’t either.

DARRIN T. MISH: But I think, I don’t know it’s just not my thing.  I don’t have a problem with people that have tattoos.  Not really sure how we ended up talking about that…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  You know mid-life crisis I guess.

DARRIN T. MISH: Got it.  So we are going to talk about a news story in the news right now, I thought it was pretty interesting so recently the IRS chief whose name is John Koskinen, kind of hard word to say.  He indicated to house committee that the IRS was broke and that they needed more money and they probably are and they probably do need more money, because they are actually, it’s a pretty good way to spend money believe it or not I’ve seen the stats on for every dollar that the IRS gets in budget they collect something like I forget if it’s $20 or $40 but it’s a pretty good investment, but right now in the current political climate that we are in we are just in a big mess where we are so partisan that we can’t get anything done.  But the particular, the house committee now wants to know well if you are broke how did you hire the 700 new enforcement employees you know at the IRS so I think it’s kind of interesting but you know…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  That was kind of the point right?  They needed the money?

DARRIN T. MISH: Yeah so there’s about a 100,000 employees at the IRS and hiring 700 new people doesn’t seem like a huge number to me and particularly given the fact at a rate higher than they earn so I think that we really should be focusing on hiring better people in the government then we currently do.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  I don’t even know, what is the IRS chief?  He’s like the head dog in charge?

DARRIN T. MISH: Yeah he’s the IRS commissioner yeah he is in charge of the IRS.

PAT: I have a question for you if you were going to be my tax attorney I would say are you an aggressive attorney or a passive attorney?

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Passive, aggressive.

DARRIN T. MISH: I am very aggressive.  I do not like to lose now we fight within the bounds of the law and what not, I’m pretty laid back in terms of regular life but when it comes to work my brain is always working on, if I have a case that I think is kind of unwinnable my subconscious will turn away on that thing for days and days, weeks and weeks.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Until you can figure it out.

DARRIN T. MISH: Until I can figure it out and quite often, it’s pretty interesting, quite often the subconscious gives, serves up the answer you know.  Just recently we had a case that I thought was really going to be hard and impossible and I just thought about it, really not all that long and I was like wait a minute only one spouse in this particular case is liable, the other spouse isn’t so that takes half the equity in the house off the table and it takes essentially all her income off the table and so we are going to be able to come out to a  lower payment on the properly structured payment plan to the IRS then we had previously thought so.  Yeah I am pretty aggressive, I like to win and that’s the part of the job that is interesting is winning and coming out with good results for clients, it’s not really about the money for me, it’s not really about anything other than it’s a lot more fun to win then it is to lose.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Oh that means it’s time for the train wreck of the week.

DARRIN T. MISH: It’s about the time for the IRS train wreck of the week segment.  In this segment we talk about somebody who came into the office and hired us when they were a train wreck when the IRS was chasing them and hounding them for money and they always leave…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Or their bank account got swooped or their wages got garnished.

DARRIN T. MISH: Exactly.

PAT: I didn’t even know I was a train wreck a long time ago.

DARRIN T. MISH: Well you might actually still be a train wreck but anyway.

PAT: Well if you ask Charlie he probably say yeah.

DARRIN T. MISH: Charlie is the station manager.  So in this particular case this was a couple out in California, I get a lot of cases from outside of the state of Florida and because the IRS is Federal in nature I can and do represent clients from all over the country.  They actually live in San Pedro, California and for those of you that don’t know that is a suburb of Los Angeles, LA incidentally is one of the biggest geographical cities in America, it’s absolutely huge without traffic it takes you about an hour and a half to drive across.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  If you ever drive in there you will realize that.

DARRIN T. MISH: Yeah it’s absolutely enormous but they were telling me a little bit about their story they owe $32,189 to the IRS which for me is not a really big case but actually ironically means it’s a little bit harder than average to solve.  They both were working and they told me a little bit about their income and their story and they earn pretty good money, I don’t remember exactly how much but it was above the median average in the Tampa Bay area which isn’t really that hard if you  live in Los Angeles right because  I think the national housing allowance in LA is something like $3200 a month or something like that and in the Tampa area for a family of 2 would be about $1800 so roughly housing and a lot of things actually, fuel and everything like that costs a lot more out there.  We filed an Offer in Compromise for these folks which is you know a program the IRS has where you can make a deal to settle for less and we were able to document that their monthly disposable income was actually zero, you know they had not a single dollar to spare, so we offered $500 to settle this case for $32,189 and just the other day the IRS called and said that they are going to go ahead and recommend that case for acceptance and they never asked us one single question.

PAT: That is not a train wreck that’s a limo ride.

DARRIN T. MISH: Absolutely that’s an awesome report for them.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  They came in a train wreck, they left a limo ride.

DARRIN T. MISH: And you know I have to say this I really appreciate the faith that these folks had in me we never met in person because they lived in LA and I don’t.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Well you were a natural born Californian.

DARRIN T. MISH: Well I am from California originally and that’s how I know so much about Los Angeles.  I was actually there a week before last and realized really quickly that I really like living in the Tampa Bay area but despite the fact that traffic was kind of a mess today, but nothing like it would of been if we were living in the southland so…


DARRIN T. MISH: Any way they got a really good result $500 on $32,000 is a great result, I’m not sure if they are fully aware yet of what the story is, they had to pay $100 down to get that thing started and it took about 7-8 months so they are actually have 5 months from the formal acceptance letter which won’t come for maybe another month or 2 to go ahead and pay that balance of $400.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  I think you could go find cans for $400 for real or they take bottle deposits don’t they out there in California?

DARRIN T. MISH: You know they are going to go ahead and by hook or by crook, they are going to go ahead and figure that out and settle that and I’m just super happy for them.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  I’m sure somebody will lend them $400.

DARRIN T. MISH: Yeah it’s not going to be a problem.  Over 5 months they are going to be able to figure it out it’s not going to be a big deal but I know you know because I remember them quite well they are going to be really happy.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Well you are listening to the IRS Attorney show, we sure had fun with you today.  We hope if you are in the car trolling around that you had fun listening to us to and if you have a question we will be here same time same place next week, we really enjoyed having you here on Money talk 1010 for this week.

DARRIN T. MISH: We’re out.

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