How $2.2 Million Brought out the Haters

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DARRIN T. MISH: Good morning and welcome to the IRS Solution Attorney show, I am the IRS Solution Attorney Darrin T. Mish.  Click here to watch or read more information on IRS Back Taxes.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  It’s him, I promise. He’s got a little bit of a cold. I’m your co-host, Katrina Madewell. Welcome to the show.

DARRIN T. MISH: My cold is so bad that as I hear my own voice through my headphones, it doesn’t sound like me. You already need to get used to your own voice but I’ve got this Barry White thing going on. I’m drinking hot tea and it’s just not really working all that well but Katrina’s here to bail me out if it all goes bad.

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KATRINA MADEWELL:  And normally we have our outline of the show but today is going to be just a little bit of a rough, off-the-cuff show. What do you think about that?

DARRIN T. MISH: Sounds scary, but I trust you Katrina. We’ve been doing this for quite some time so she sprung this to me on the way to the station today. She says Darrin doesn’t know it but we are going to have a lot of fun today.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  He was like what is going on? He almost did a U-turn…

DARRIN T. MISH: The comment was wrat wroo.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So, Pat George is having a little bit of eye foo foo going on today so Mark Charles is back there filling in for him.

MARK CHARLES:  Happy to be here.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Thank you for producing the show. So, yes if you are listening to the traffic, which is non-existent this morning, that’s Mark Charles back there giving you the details on news and traffic.

DARRIN T. MISH: So, what is the deal? Why isn’t there any traffic? I have a theory. I think it’s the kids are not in school? Mark’s shaking his head, he thinks that might be the case as well.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Well, Hillsborough is out.

MARK CHARLES:  And on top of that, a lot of people are gone on vacation already for the holiday.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Well, they travel and see family. Think about it. Most Tampa people are not from here like me…

DARRIN T. MISH: Aren’t there a few hundred thousand extra people from Michigan and stuff here?

MARK CHARLES:  And it’s also notable to say today specifically is the heaviest travel day all year.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  There you go. So, I mean….

DARRIN T. MISH: The skies are full.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Well, there’s Michigan people here, but they are already here. They are not driving anywhere, Darrin, at the time that we have to leave to get here for our 9 am show.

DARRIN T. MISH: That’s true, you are not going to the mall at 7 in the morning I don’t think.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Well, some places like Kohl’s is open 24 hours already.

DARRIN T. MISH: I was at Best Buy in Brandon yesterday. We had to go and get a gift and that place was blown up. I mean it was crazy.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Was it so busy?

DARRIN T. MISH: It was so busy there was not a spot in the parking lot and that’s a big store and it was standing room only in the store too.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  I’m late this year getting to my Christmas shopping. Last night I really didn’t want to go because it was late and I was already tired and I had to get up early today to do the show. But I went to Wal-mart and I’m like, alright, I’m going to finish my shopping. So, I’m done…

DARRIN T. MISH: You are all done, that’s good.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  I would like to get one more thing but if I don’t, I’m done.

DARRIN T. MISH: I don’t normally even go to stores to Christmas shop. I’ve been an online shopper for around 10 years.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  That’s because Heather does all the work. Are you kidding, tell the truth.

DARRIN T. MISH: My wife does all the work, period. This year I waited a little too long and I am a rabid Amazon guy and they are sold out of everything. The fact that Sunday is Christmas, Christmas falls on Sunday, really jacked up my last-minute shipping. I know they ship, well they are not going to deliver this Sunday but…

KATRINA MADEWELL:   They were, not Christmas but Christmas Eve they will be delivering a lot.

DARRIN T. MISH: Well good luck delivering a package to my home. What the UPS driver does is he throws it over the fence and it’s in the wilderness even when it lands on the ground. That’s not a great thing.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Ok. So, do you want to hear something funny? With the Prime Amazon shopping online I ordered a Fire stick for somebody on my list and literally they were out of stock on the Fire Stick, it was back ordered. They are like, sorry you are going to get this after Christmas, and I’m going are you kidding me it’s like the signature thing for Amazon.

DARRIN T. MISH: Ok, so some of us don’t know what a Fire Stick is.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Yes, ok so, you don’t know what a Fire Stick is?

DARRIN T. MISH: I have no idea what a Fire stick is, it’s sounds like something that you light fires with that perhaps is a stick, it sounds illegal…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Are you kidding are you joking?

DARRIN T. MISH: I don’t have any idea what a Fire Stick is.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Ok, so, Fire Stick is like you, have you seen the Roku and like the Apple TV and that kind of stuff?  Ok, so, the Fire Stick is Amazon’s version of like Netflix, sort of, with a whole lot of extra stuff.

DARRIN T. MISH: Ok, sure, yeah, I got one of those but I got one of all of those…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  You have one but you don’t know what it is.

DARRIN T. MISH: Yeah, I have one but I don’t use it because the other one’s are better.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Well, I don’t know it’s debatable, it’s debatable because we do have the Chromecast too.


KATRINA MADEWELL:  But the Fire Stick …

DARRIN T. MISH: Apple TV is kind of cool to.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Well my neighbor did a little bit of magic on the Fire Stick and now it does all of this stuff, right…

DARRIN T. MISH: I have one of those boxes that probably is illegal, this little box that I bought at a home show.

MARK CHARLES:  I would stop there.

DARRIN T. MISH: And you can watch everything that has ever existed. There’s this Disney Movie called The Song of the South and it’s been banned for, I don’t know…


DARRIN T. MISH: It’s been banned for like 20-30 years because it’s so politically incorrect it deals with slavery and what not. And you cannot buy that film from Disney so, in my mind that was like the test if The Song of the South could come across this box, not that I care about the movie all that much, but if I could get that movie on this box that meant the box worked as advertised and the wife and kids and I sat down one night and we watched the entire Song of the South on the box for free.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  And what is that Apple TV?

DARRIN T. MISH: No, it’s like this, I don’t even know what it is called it’s like an Android thing that goes out on the Internet and just looks for, I don’t know if they are called bootleg copies or what…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Well, you are kind of like me, you want to do it just to see if you can get away with it just because it’s not even about the movie.

MARK CHARLES:  They are doing the same thing with that Fire Stick. They call it, and by the way I don’t suggest or condone, but it’s called jail breaking and people are buying the Fire Sticks for like 30 bucks or 50 or whatever the case is and they are going and Googling how to and the next thing they are opening up and stealing from all of these rich actors.

DARRIN T. MISH: Fascinating. I think the Fire Sticks are probably an Android sort of device…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Of course it is you are going to say that because you have an IPhone it’s like a great debate in my office.

DARRIN T. MISH: No, I’m not saying anything bad about the Android it’s just Amazon uses Android stuff so it’s probably a jail broken android.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  That’s what you say it’s a jail broken android alright…

MARK CHARLES:  Well you jail break your android you are going to be breaking out of jail.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Yeah tech geeks we want to hear all about that if it’s true..

MARK CHARLES:  Yeah, how about Apple or Android call them? We want to know that is in debate right Apple or Android?

DARRIN T. MISH: What’s the best tech… Let’s do a segment laying into tax stuff, what’s the best tax write off Apple or Android?  I know hands down Apple it costs more better tax break.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Yeah and there are never any sales on them it’s ridiculous.

DARRIN T. MISH: That’s true.

MARK CHARLES:  I once had a Siri on an internet radio station that I used to run right out of this building. Her name is Susan Bennett, she did all the voiceovers for Apple, for the iPhone and come to find out in the interview she was never paid royalties, was never given any free phones or anything like that, she was used as a regular voice actress. Susan Bennett’s the name and basically the voice, the concept is still used and she got nothing out of it but her flat rate that she charged as a voice actress.

DARRIN T. MISH: Yeah, I know Susan and I’ve also heard her tell her story that she didn’t even know until…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  We chatted with her.

MARK CHARLES:  That’s correct. She had no idea what she was voicing for…

DARRIN T. MISH: Until Siri came out and she is like wow it’s me…


MARK CHARLES:  Classic Steve Jobs move right there.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  They could have at least named it after her don’t you think?

DARRIN T. MISH: They could have called it Susan.

MARK CHARLES:  I bet it’s a different voice now because I’ve heard the Siri’s lately. I seriously doubt it’s her. Plus, you have all the new recordings so how was she going to record all of the new stuff right so it’s got to be a new person.

DARRIN T. MISH: Yeah, Susan Bennett’s got a classy voice she’s the voice of AT&T. Remember back in the day when we all had AT&T or MCI or whatever long distance company…


DARRIN T. MISH: Her voice was, Welcome, or what did it say?

KATRINA MADEWELL:  I don’t know but…

DARRIN T. MISH: I think it said Welcome to AT&T or something along those lines and she has a classic voice that’s just on a lot of big products.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Not that I wanted to keep talking about this because we do have some cool stuff to talk about, but I think it’s hilarious. I don’t know what the guy’s name is but he is in the black suit now with the yellow bandanna, he used to be the can you hear me now guy, the V company. And now he is with the S company it’s pretty, wow I guess his contract was up they must have paid him more.

DARRIN T. MISH: Or something happened where, yeah, he was like pay me more and they were like, no. Ok, then I’m leaving.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So, well if you want to chime in feel free like you…

DARRIN T. MISH: Chime in about the nonsense that we are talking about…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  I can be your target, Darrin, no, no, no what I’m going to say next 888-404-1010, 888-404-1010. The reason why I thought it would be a good idea to hijack the show today and kind of go in this direction, which Darrin probably totally wants to kill me, but we are going to do it anyway. Last week, if you are familiar with the show and you have listened for any period, almost every week at the end of the show Darrin will do what we call the train wreck of the week and so what the train wreck of the week is where someone comes into the office you talk about their hot mess, how you fixed it and what the resolution was and obviously, it can be different for every single person. So, Darrin posted this train wreck of the week…

DARRIN T. MISH: On Facebook.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Yeah on Facebook. And his IRS Solution Attorney page and the comments were off the chain like you had a lot of people, I’m just going to pop on over here and look at his laptop there’s been a lot of comments and I want to talk about some of these comments on the air.

DARRIN T. MISH: I usually post the train wreck stories both on my personal feed and on my IRS Solution Attorney feed and the most vitriolic comments were on my personal feed, there was one lady that was so upset with me that I had to ban her and block her I just was like a little bit too crazy.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  But that’s the point though right and we’ll talk about maybe some thought process behind that and I really want to read the comment which I’m clearly going to have to do after the break but when we come back we are going to talk about this elderly gentleman short story is elderly gentleman came in he owed 2. something million bucks…

DARRIN T. MISH: 2.2 million…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Settled it for 50 grand…

DARRIN T. MISH: Settled for 50 grand, took 3 years.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  That was the short version of the story it took 3 years and a whole lot of work. But when we come back I’ll read the actual post, and we are going to read some of the comments, and if you would like to chime in because you are hanging out at home today and you didn’t have to go to work you can call us at 888-404-1010, 888-404-1010 again save that number Mark will let  if there’s any traffic issues 888-404-1010. Back in a moment.

DARRIN T. MISH: This is a song that I posted in response to a bunch of haters that I got from this particular post. Love this song.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  It’s well that’s what haters going to hate, hate, hate, you reminded me of something that my daughter posted on Twitter it was something cute like her boyfriend had a sign or whatever and put, he asked her to Prom with a sign, and all these random people like I don’t know if they are high school kids like in another area or whatever just posting all this stuff like this mean stuff on Twitter, so kids have a totally different, like they just grow up different than we did growing up and my daughter was like so upset about it she is like I am going to take it down, she was crying and I’m like no I said don’t you dare take that post down I said that’s exactly what they want.

DARRIN T. MISH: Wait for it…(Listening to music from Taylor Swift Shake it off)…

MARK CHARLES:  There it is a little holiday shuffle.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  That’s right…

DARRIN T. MISH: So just in case you are joining us for the first time this morning Welcome back to the IRS Solution Attorney show with a little Taylor Swift bumper…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Because the haters are going to hate, hate, hate.

MARK CHARLES:  And I love, love, love Taylor.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So I’m your co-host Katrina Madewell and I usually try to keep the show real and fun and when Darrin’s not feeling up to it I shake him, shake him, shake him just a little bit and make him have some fun.

DARRIN T. MISH: Quick little trivia, I had the benefit of going to the Grammy Awards twice with my wife. That was back when Taylor was country. So, being kind of a contrarian…the Grammy’s is kind of like a pop, R&B, rap sort of show and there is this little tiny country component. We can’t leave them out because then it’s not really all music. So I decided that I was going to the Grammy’s in my country, or in my… yeah in my country tuxedo, my cowboy tuxedo. I wore a black hat one year, a white hat another year, I wore lizard skin boots and it’s really wild you see all kinds of music celebrities in the audience and the after party and what not, and on both occasions people walked up to me and asked me who were my clients like I was an agent. One guy asked me he say’s so where’s Zac?  And I was like, and this was when Zac Brown was kind of new and I’m like Zac?  He says yeah and I said Zac Brown? he goes yeah, and I go I don’t know I haven’t seen him. But the cool thing is we were all sitting at the what’s the name of the hotel down there, we were staying at the Roosevelt hotel on Hollywood Blvd. And Zac Brown and Leon Russell, who is now passed away, they came back to the bar and we partied with Zac Brown and Leon Russell in the bar at the Roosevelt Hotel after the Grammy Awards.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Now that would be fun.

DARRIN T. MISH: Very, very, very cool but that was when Taylor was country, Taylor is not really country anymore she’s more of a pop star.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  That’s how they make their segue in. You’ve got to follow them, they are either the Disney kids that were Disney actresses and now they are a hot mess like Lindsay Lohan. Or, look at the Olsen Twins. Have you seen…I got People Magazine in the office and there is one of the Olsen Twins like literally laying up on the rail like bad babysitter or something I don’t know.

DARRIN T. MISH: Aren’t the Olsen Twins like 37 now?

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Are they that old?


KATRINA MADEWELL:  They are not that old.

MARK CHARLES:  I know because I was, I’m 31…and they were still little kids, like babies and I was  4,5 or 6 years old watching so she’s got to be younger than me.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Oh yeah they are like later 20’s.

MARK CHARLES:  Unless that was makeup.

DARRIN T. MISH: Or reruns.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Reruns. Alright, so let’s go back to this post. Let’s talk about this. Last week we shared a post where Darrin helped a client. It took him more than 3 years. So there’s a backstory behind all of these stories that we share which are true but the guy was an older guy 70’s?

DARRIN T. MISH: Yeah, he is in his 70’s for sure he is not in great health either, he doesn’t have a lot of income potential left.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Well, he is certainly not in his earning years of his life if he is in his 70’s.

DARRIN T. MISH: No, he is not in his prime earning years. But the funny thing is, is that I’m kind of stuck in my own little bubble like all of us are right so I can’t even really fathom me posting a story about helping a good honest person out of owing the IRS 2.2 million dollars.

KATRINA MADEWELL: Because it doesn’t happen.

DARRIN T. MISH: I can’t even really fathom other human beings being upset by that so it’s really interesting to me. I don’t take offense like if people post nasty comments, if people take offense and post nasty things I don’t really…

KATRINA MADEWELL: It does roll off.

DARRIN T. MISH: I mean I know what I’m doing I know I’m doing good. Most of the people are posting nasty things is out of jealousy.

MARK CHARLES:  That’s what I told Katrina earlier that sounds like bitterness coming out of people that just couldn’t pull off what you pulled off and congratulations on it by the way I am not a hater.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Plus there is a back story that you are not at liberty to discuss on the air.

DARRIN T. MISH: Oh, yeah, there is lots and lots of personal facts…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  I mean you still have client attorney privilege confidentiality stuff that you have to follow.

DARRIN T. MISH: Yeah, I can only give you so much details so that you cannot identify the actual individual…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  It’s a generic story.

DARRIN T. MISH: But it’s a true story it’s just not going into a lot of details.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So this guy owed, he owed 2.2 million dollars in back taxes…

DARRIN T. MISH: And about 1.6 million of that was unpaid payroll tax. So here’s how that happens and that sounds really bad right? I mean if you are just a lay person and you don’t really live in this world you think wow he racked up 1.6 million in payroll taxes and he didn’t pay it?  Well here’s what happened, he was running a pretty good size company, and he had a lot of staff evidently to rack up 1.6 million dollars’ worth of tax liability and here’s what a lot of business owners do, it’s not necessarily the right thing to do or the best thing to do, but here is what a lot of guys do is they keep their employees to long even when they aren’t able to pay the taxes, the payroll taxes because they think they are going to turn it around number 1…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  They should let them go sooner.

DARRIN T. MISH: They should let them go sooner but here’s, I can tell you that I have experienced this personally is when you are having cash flow problems as the business owner you start to think about your employees first…


DARRIN T. MISH: And how many people they support from the money that you pay them. So, it’s not just like firing one person if you, if you lay off one person that’s going to impact their family of 4 and so on and so on and so on and so…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  If you are a business owner listening to this because I know I’ve experienced it, I’ve paid my employees and my support staff before I paid myself and not taking a paycheck so that I could pay them.

DARRIN T. MISH: Yeah for sure and I think most business owners who have had staff have done that from time to time if they are honest and good people that’s the way to do it is you pay, you pay your staff and you pay their taxes before you take any money but there comes a time as the business owner when you can’t do that you still …

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Well, you’ve dug, this hole is deep and you don’t know how to get out.

DARRIN T. MISH: So, he ended up owing 1.6 million in payroll taxes and about 600 grand in income taxes over a very long period of time. He was peripherally involved with real estate, I can’t recall if it was development and in construction or if it was investment I don’t really recall and it’s not even that important but…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  But a lot of those people got hit really, really, hard in the collapse.

DARRIN T. MISH: So, when the real estate market collapsed I mean here you got this guy and he is left holding the bag. He owes 2.2 million dollars to the IRS and with no clear identifiable way to pay back any of it or any significant portion of it.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So let’s, let’s read a couple of these comments because like one of the ones right off the…

DARRIN T. MISH: Well, let’s sell the punch line here, ok? So real quick, real quick I started out the negotiations with the IRS by offering $754.00. Now this was kind of funny because when I got the initial call back from the person at the IRS who’s going to decide the first part of the case, he literally, told me he was mad at me and I kind of laughed because I kind of expected that reaction and I knew this particular gentleman pretty well, and I literally laughed. And the reason I laughed was that wasn’t intended to be my final offer that was intended to be my starting offer. So, then the IRS employee and I negotiated out a settlement of 25 grand and that was to go up the chain and be approved and finalized and it came back and the government said that 25 grand wasn’t enough, I didn’t necessarily agree with that decision but that is what they decided and so we appealed and we offered 50 grand and we ultimately settled for 50 grand.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So, let’s talk about, also because I know we won’t have time to get into all the comments, and we’ve talked about this several times and this is one of the things that I posted and I thought I was posting it as myself and then I realized that it just said the IRS Solution Attorney. I’m like I can’t let Darrin take heat for this so I am going to post my name right below so that people knew it was me posting it. So, people are posting all this stuff like oh your client should be in jail right and all of this stuff. So, let’s talk about that for a minute because I mean how does that make sense that the client should go to jail because they ultimately want them back in the system they want them to start paying taxes again, if you put them in jail we just offered to support them with nothing contributed back to society. How does that make sense?

DARRIN T. MISH: So, so I’m not going to call the people who posted those types of comments ignorant but I’m going to say those were ignorant comments you understand the distinction?


DARRIN T. MISH: The people are not ignorant but those are ignorant comments, those are uneducated comments…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Well, ignorant means that you are not educated, you don’t know it doesn’t mean that you are stupid.

DARRIN T. MISH: So, those were uneducated ill-advised comments. I did the research and it costs over $31,000 per year to put one inmate in the Federal prison system so, according to that line of thinking, we should take an old man who owes 2.2 million dollars to the government and we should put him in prison, well how long should we put him in prison?  5 years, 1 year, 10 years…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  You should’ve asked that.

DARRIN T. MISH: Like how long should I just jury and executioner how long should he be in prison and if you mister judge, jury and executioner have trouble paying your taxes someday do you still advocate that you should go to jail?

KATRINA MADEWELL:  I think if the roles are reversed, it changes, right? What is it an Eminem song talk about walking a mile in my shoes right like that’s the same thing it’s a cliché. Like, yeah, it’s easy to condemn somebody but  they don’t live in a glass house and if they were experiencing that they would want a little bit of grace.

DARRIN T. MISH: The great news is, we don’t have debtor’s prisons in the United States. And a lot of the immigrants that came over to the colonies originally fled England and Europe because there were debtor’s prisons. If you couldn’t pay your debts they would throw you in jail indefinitely and a lot of the colonists came over and they were indentured servants because of their debts that they owed back in Europe and they had to work off their debts over a period of years working on plantations and farms and what not here in the United States.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  And I think as Americans people tend to forget that your ancestors are from somewhere else…

DARRIN T. MISH: Yeah, absolutely almost every single one of us. Even native Americans are from somewhere else.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Exactly. So people flock to this country because we are so liberal and we have so many rights and you can say whatever you want unfortunately, I mean there is good and bad in that.

DARRIN T. MISH: Yeah, for sure, but anyway I’m for one glad that we don’t throw people who owe taxes in jail.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So, when we come back we are going to dive into some of these comments. I’m going to read them on air exactly and if you want to comment you can hit Darrin at Twitter @darrin_mish.

DARRIN T. MISH: Or on Facebook just like we are talking about at The IRS Solution Attorney.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  And we will be happy to read your comment on the air and debate it with you if you want to call in we are at 888-404-1010, 888-404-1010. We will be back in just a moment.

(commercial break)

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Welcome back, you are listening to the IRS Solution Attorney show. We are glad you are here with us today we are live today in the studio which may not be the case in the next couple of weeks but we are live right now.

DARRIN T. MISH: Might not be.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So if you want to call in we are at 888-404-1010 we are happy to chat with you we are streaming live on my Facebook page, I will share this over at the IRS Solution Attorney show. Today’s whole show was prompted by the post that Darrin wrote and he is going to give you a little recap just in case you missed it and then we are going to read a few more of these comments as promised.

DARRIN T. MISH: So, the recap of the post on Facebook on the IRS Solution Attorney page was basically that I had, it was the train wreck of the week last week where I basically had a client that owed 2.2 million and we ultimately were able to get it settled for $50,000. The back story is the gentleman in question is in his 70’s, I can’t remember if it’s mid or late but it’s definitely mid at least and so the kind of point being there is the prime earning years of his life are essentially over unless he lives to be 135 and as I recall he is not in great health, and his finances are a wreck and that’s one of the reasons why the IRS decided to take the $50,000 instead of holding out for the 2.2 million dollars. Katrina another point that we haven’t brought up in this particular case and part of the story is there is a 10 year statute of limitations for the collection of the tax anyway and this has been ticking by so he didn’t even have, the IRS didn’t even have the full 10 years as I recall they had about half of it left maybe 5 years so one of the prospects of the IRS  getting back collecting the full 2.2 million dollars from somebody who is essentially unemployed, with no assets, and the time is, the time is ticking so I guess those same people who are aggravated would be proponents of no statute of limitations if you owe the government money then you are just going to owe it until you die and then your estate is going to pay it and interest and penalties rack up at the tune of doubling every 7 years or so and that’s just the deal.


DARRIN T. MISH: Until they get audited and which case they come to me an say is that really what happens?

KATRINA MADEWELL:  I wish we had more time to post these things cause I would’ve loved to have, not poke the bear, but ask some more of those thought provoking questions so that we could have a better conversation on air so let’s get into a couple of these comments Darrin so one of them is like oh your client should be in jail, so and we talked about that before the prior segment.

DARRIN T. MISH: Yeah, and the downside to that or the counterpoint to that was, it costs over $31,000 per year to house a Federal inmate and the guy already owes 2.2 million dollars so you would be a proponent of jailing him so let’s say the average person who was a proponent of jailing him wanted 10 years so now you are going to spend another $310,000 for jailing this guy for 10 years to what end to scare the rest of us to pay our taxes? Well, this is a gentleman who couldn’t pay his taxes no matter what.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So, another comment that you got was some people should be placed in the no settlement bracket, write off’s for smaller guys like this one is ok. I needed you when I owed $20,000 I could’ve used that money so let’s talk about somebody that owes $20,000 compared to 2.2 million dollars. Big difference.

DARRIN T. MISH: When I read this particular comment I really don’t understand it but I do understand that he is saying that I owed 20 grand and…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  He needed the money.

DARRIN T. MISH: And I didn’t get a deal and he didn’t think that’s fair and I would tend to agree with him that that’s not really fair but remember an offer in compromise works like this they take your monthly disposable income, multiply that by 12, add in the value of your assets and that’s the amount of your offer now there’s a catch to this, to this formula that  I just gave you and the catch is, the exception is, if the IRS could collect that money within the statute of limitations, based on that monthly disposable income, then you don’t get a deal they just want the monthly payments so here’s what this means folks bigger cases are easier to settle because of this exception so I’ve settled a few $25,000 cases this year and I don’t take very many for offers at least because they are so hard, I have to prove, in order to, in order to settle a $25,000 total liability I basically have to prove that you don’t have more than $100 a month left over. That’s pretty, it’s a pretty tough sled.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Well we’ve talked about this to on the show and I have brought it up $20,000 let’s face it if your kid had some rare disease and you had to come up with the money for the cure and if it was $20,000 you would find that $20,000 pretty easily.

DARRIN T. MISH: I would be out there picking up aluminum cans I mean seriously.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  2.2 million dollars, big difference.

DARRIN T. MISH: Yeah there is a huge difference.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Big, big, difference.

DARRIN T. MISH: Between $20,000 and 2.2 million. I loved working on this case because it was such a huge problem and I think most guys in my business would not…


DARRIN T. MISH: Would not have taken that case just too big, too scary. But really when you boil it down you take a couple of zero’s off that case it’s the same case. It was all about the zero’s and in some small part it was easier than the $20,000 case.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So, another post that you had to says so I’m a sucker for paying literally 10’s of thousands of dollars a year in capital gains taxes when I can hire this lawyer to try to scam everyone else who pays their taxes. Well first of all, I want to comment about this as an agent and if you listen to Tampa home talk last week you would realize that literally you can escape Capital Gains taxes forever. And you are exempt that your primary residence under certain thresholds but let’s and it’s owned for 2 years but let’s say it’s an investment property and you sell it you don’t have to pay Capital Gains taxes you are getting ill advice I mean you can use a 1031 exchange to your advantage, it’s there for a reason.

DARRIN T. MISH: Based on the set and structure and what not of this particular post he’s probably not getting advice…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  I don’t think so.

DARRIN T. MISH: He’s probably just doing things on his own which is fine. I want to point out something really kind of quickly that’s kind of funny to me and that is, that’s the way the Facebook algorithm works the more engagement that you get with the post the more people will see the post, ok?  So, the reason that I keep laughing and we keep playing the bumper music of haters gonna hate, hate, hate is because haters are helping me because they are engaging with the post which also means by the way they are more likely to see my stuff but then I get access to all of their friends to…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Which might have a tax problem.

DARRIN T. MISH: Which, odds are have a tax problem so over, almost 7,000 people have seen this post so far and the more people kind of get aggravated and want to fire off at me the better like it’s all, the more the merrier so bring it on.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So, Claudia posted and I don’t think she is listening to the show so we will make sure we take this live Facebook stream and post it in the feed so that people can  see it but she says I don’t understand so we can offer the IRS an amount that you want to pay in taxes instead of the amount they claim we owe?  She is like wow, sign me up.

DARRIN T. MISH: Sign me up as your client. It doesn’t work exactly like that so going back to the formula I know it’s not, it’s not easy to hear but it’s monthly disposable income times 12 plus assets equals the amount of the offer. So, I am going to give you an example if you had a hundred bucks a month in disposable income hundred times 12 is $1200 let’s assume you have no assets, yes Claudia you could offer 1200 bucks and if everything falls in line you could settle that case for 1200 bucks now if you are like my client and you owe 2.2 mill, I don’t think we are going to get it done for 1200 bucks, even though that’s what the formula says because this guy’s formula said $754 but….

KATRINA MADEWELL:  The IRS is like ha, ha, ha.

DARRIN T. MISH: The ratio is so off there that they decided to reject it initially based upon public policy now what does that mean?

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Which is probably why the IRS guy was mad at you.

DARRIN T. MISH: Exactly, exactly so what does public policy mean? Well the IRS has to publish the raw data for all of these offers every year….

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Where, where are they publishing this stuff?

DARRIN T. MISH: Like in the Federal register someplace where nobody ever reads ok but they have to publish it, it’s, the taxpayer names are not public but the results are public and what happen was that $25,000 offer that we thought we were going to get through, it was so low that they were like no, we don’t want to deal with the blowback from that offer it’s too good a deal and so that’s why we doubled it to $50,000 and I did the math I think it’s like a couple of pennies on the dollar but a couple of pennies on the dollar is better than a couple tenths of a penny on the dollar right?

KATRINA MADEWELL:  And let’s face it your guy likely I mean to have this tax problem for so long, I’m sure he doesn’t easily have $50,000 there he probably had to sell some stuff..

DARRIN T. MISH: Absolutely he had to borrow the money from somebody who has faith in him that he is going to be able to pay it back which is some kind of really good friend right and this is not money that he had in the mattress or whatever for sure.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  And that’s hard like can you imagine that if I said hey Mark I owe 2.2 million dollars to the IRS can you lend me 50 grand cause I need to pay it off.

MARK CHARLES:  Yeah, I’m going to need 20 points every month on that one though.

DARRIN T. MISH: And who knows maybe that’s the deal he made I don’t know, but…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So, let’s go back to this so I of course I had to post about the 1031 exchange and avoiding Capital Gains which is absolutely legal by the way, it’s completely in the tax code and if you had good information it would, again I think the guy is ill advised that posted this so he responds back which we just  saw this this morning he said the gentleman that owed 2.2 million dollars in tax liabilities end up coughing a mere $50,000 and is thrilled that he can get on with his life. Well I’m sure he is I would be wouldn’t you he says if I was able to scam off with well over 2 million dollars I’d be pretty thrilled as well of course we want them back in the system so they can start collecting taxes again but how about some time in prison system first. What’s even more disturbing is the gentleman in question probably complains about poverty stricken jobless folks getting a few hundred bucks a week in lay about sucking off about the public teeth?


KATRINA MADEWELL:  My far away vision is not good I’m just saying.

DARRIN T. MISH: The funny thing about the post.

MARK CHARLES:  Neither is that persons apparently.

DARRIN T. MISH: Yeah, but the funny thing is about the post is, it sounds like this gentleman’s a proponent of large government programs like I think we can infer that and that’s fine he’s entitled to that sort of opinion but the 2.2 million dollars is not a drop in the bucket of anything the way our Federal Government wastes money it’s completely insignificant, never mind it was always uncollectable, ok, it was completely always uncollectible.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  You should post that little, you remember the ticker that we had going one day that showed the Federal tax they should just put a link for that in the post as a response.

DARRIN T. MISH: The National Debt clock it’s like 19 trillion and counting yeah Pat put it up a couple of weeks ago, right next to my face  I have this monitor and he decided he was going to put it in gigantic right next to my head so I couldn’t miss it.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So this guy instead of squandering the rest of his life whatever time that is it may be 20 years maybe less who knows he has a chance to start over maybe start another business, learn from what he did wrong.

DARRIN T. MISH: Yeah just not to mention, I’m no bleeding heart. I mean if you are a regular listener to the show I’m a big proponent of individual responsibility I’m sort of an escape hatch for bad decisions here at least with regards to tax problems.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  And Darrin has said multiple times I don’t want repeat clients because that means you didn’t learn anything.

DARRIN T. MISH: Yeah, I really don’t want repeat clients it makes me feel like a personal failure because you come to me stressed out anxiety ridden, you’ve made one of the biggest mistakes you’ve made in your life and I get to partner with you to fix it I do not want reruns I will take you if we have to but I don’t want reruns because it does mean that I have failed you, that’s how I take it.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Have you had an instance where your reruns you are like aww something a little different happened you ever felt that way?

DARRIN T. MISH: Yeah for sure and when I used to do criminal defense. If a person, I would get them on probation and then there would be a violation of probation and then there would be a second violation of probation a lot of times I wouldn’t take that second case.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Well, there is always the bad news bears the ones that all the drama follows. We all know those, you probably have one of those people in your family don’t even lie about it, you do. Alright you are listening to the IRS Solution Attorney show we are having a lot of fun with that live stream that you’ve got going keep those comments coming you can call in we will take your comments, your suggestion or your heat at 888-404-1010, 888-404-1010 thanks Mark Shaw’s back doing a great job on the show this morning. We will be back in a minute.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  And I must say this is probably one of the most fun shows that I have ever had with you Darrin.

MARK CHARLES:  Yeah Pat George just joking.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Well we didn’t do it from an outline at all like today was like our outline was the crazy Facebook streams and the feeds and the rouge questions.

MARK CHARLES: That’s right man plans and God laughs. Man, doesn’t plan and everyone else laughs with us.

DARRIN T. MISH: Exactly that’s kind of how it seems like it works out it’s better to have a fall back plan if things don’t work out but today has been fun, because it’s real, this is like real life there are really people who are aggravated that some scum bag lawyer such as myself has been able to help out a good honest person who owed 2.2 million dollars to the IRS and had no way out.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Did he use the words scumbag I think he did.

DARRIN T. MISH: No I interjected that just for…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  I was going to say he might of.

DARRIN T. MISH: Just for a little flavor I thought I would throw that in there and that’s partly our fart, our fault…

MARK CHARLES:  Yes, it is.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Yes, that’s our fart… Did you hear that?

DARRIN T. MISH: Our fault…

MARK CHARLES:  Wow that’s even better than a real one.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  I got to tell you like a year ago, Darrin could not have laughed about that.

MARK CHARLES:  I thought you were going to say about a year ago Darrin couldn’t stop.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  No, he would have been crawling under the table in like sheer humiliation where I can trip over my own words and laugh about myself and keep on moving.

MARK CHARLES:  I don’t know he is turning pretty red right now.

DARRIN T. MISH: So as a profession it’s our fault because we aren’t real and we don’t say things like fart by accident on the radio.

MARK CHARLES:  Or in the courtroom that would be great say your honor it was not his fart, fart….

DARRIN T. MISH: I’ve said some pretty outrageous things in the courtroom but moving right along I cannot remember what I was going to say other then there are people who are mad that this guy was in big trouble and I helped him out. And I loved the fact that they are mad because it’s just all publicity is good publicity.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  And I’m not the attorney, Darrin is, so I can say things that you can’t but I mean these are really your right wing just mad at everything people I think…

DARRIN T. MISH: No I think it’s more of the left-wing folks…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Like everything has to be just so.

DARRIN T. MISH: That are mad.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  The liberal crazies.

DARRIN T. MISH: Because, I’m going to say something…

MARK CHARLES:  Well when’s the last time a liberal, I’m sorry a conservative, burnt an American flag or attacked voters? I ride the middle, I’m not either, but let’s just be honest, the liberals are acting out more than the conservatives.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  And they are and that’s I mean, I think they are. That’s my opinion.

MARK CHARLES:  I said it for you, Darrin, you wanted to say it but you just didn’t say it.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  People should have that opinion. People should say I’m going to vote for somebody based on my livelihood, based on what’s best for me, so for me I’m going to support people who support homeownership and homeownership rates and all of those things and that’s exactly who I should be voting for because it’s my livelihood, I’m not going to vote them because they are Democrat or Republican.

MARK CHARLES:  I think Darrin was trying to get a point out.

DARRIN T. MISH: So, the point I was going to make, is that the liberal folks tend to always think that there is some imaginary rich guy who really pays all the taxes. And, so ,I think this particular gentleman that we talked about the most today, I think he is mad because this imaginary rich guy, being my client, should’ve paid that 2.2 million dollars and that would’ve made everything better that would’ve housed x number of children or whatever or some theoretical social program. But the reality of the situation is they were never, this guy was in hardship status which meant we were just running the clock out, the IRS was going to get zero dollars so instead the treasury got 50 grand.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  How many years was he into that?

DARRIN T. MISH: I think he was about half way. I think he was about 5 years in and so they had about 5 years left and he was just going to end up beating all of it and so…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  And so, Geraldo Luna, he is watching, he was my show photographer for a long time when I was an (inaudible) and he’s posting stuff on Darrin…

DARRIN T. MISH: I’m being heckled electronically on social media so we are on the Facebook live feed and…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  He said he was there for you for your first show.

DARRIN T. MISH: Yeah, he was, he was and that was not my actual first show but it was my first show as your guest….

KATRINA MADEWELL:  For me, yeah.

DARRIN T. MISH: And yeah, for sure, I don’t think my hair was quite as thin so the camera here for the Facebook live was right above my head and that’s what he is making fun of. He is saying I got old. Either that or my voice I’m not really sure.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  I tried to fix it…Well he has a cold so to his credit, he does have a cold. So let’s see if Mark Charles is back there on the cue it’s about that time..

MARK CHARLES:  Oh, yeah, no, we are about ready to do the train wreck. I’m sorry you guys I’m trying to put the elements together over here but the train wreck is definitely a go right now.

DARRIN T. MISH: It’s always kind of cool when I’m not the one screwing up on the show…

MARK CHARLES:  Yeah or farting.

DARRIN T. MISH: Or farting. So, yeah, it is about that time. It’s the time for the IRS train wreck of the week. This is the segment of the show where I get to talk about somebody who owed 2.2 million dollars and settled for 50 grand, but that’s a different story. Today we are going to talk about something that’s a little bit odd and it’s kind of exciting it’s bad in a way, but it’s going to turn out fine, trust me. I had a client, or a nice couple, owed, I don’t remember I’m just going to throw some numbers out there. They owed like 50 or 75 grand. I don’t really remember. We did an offer in compromise for them and I think the payout was about 20 grand so it was a good deal. It wasn’t a smokin’ deal, it wasn’t 2.2  50 grand on 2.2 it was like 20 grand on like 50.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Makes it go away.

DARRIN T. MISH: So, it was still a pretty good deal. These folks, I don’t know how, but they scraped up the money, the 20 grand, and they paid it to the IRS within the time frame allowed. They had 5 months and they paid it off in about 2 months. About month 3, we get a letter from the IRS saying you have not met your terms of conditions, you have not made the payment and we are, if you don’t prove that you made the payment or make the payment we are going to default the offer and you are going to owe us all the money again. So, I diligently got involved. I sent them copies of the checks. I even sent the IRS copies of their own transcripts showing that they had the money.


DARRIN T. MISH: Month goes, and I think it’s over. I sent them a certified letter I’m thinking, oh surely they are going to fix this. It’s so obvious that even an IRS employee can tell what’s going on here. Well, that’s not what happened. A month later I get a letter that says well since you did not pay the money your offer is going to be terminated and now you owe us all the money again. Long story short, I’ve gotten the taxpayer advocate involved, she can see they paid the money we are going to get that offer reinstated. But this, folks, is why you need council to help you when you are dealing with the IRS. It’s like Alice in Wonderland over there.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Why do they do that?

DARRIN T. MISH: What happened is they put the money, the second big payment that they made, they put it on the wife’s social security number and the IRS computers are so bad they cannot match a husband and wife’s social security number.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Well, you are listening to the IRS Solution Attorney show. You can get Darrin at 888-get-mish.


KATRINA MADEWELL:  And we are out.

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