Figuring out a Time Table to Ending Your Tax Problems

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DARRIN T. MISH:  Welcome to the IRS Solution Attorney show I am THE IRS Solution Attorney Darrin T. Mish.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  And I am your co-host Katrina Madewell thank you so much joining me today and Darrin today.

DARRIN T. MISH:  It is just absolutely a beautiful day in the neighborhood isn’t it.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  That’s what you say every day, every week.

DARRIN T. MISH:  No.  Some weeks it’s rainy and nasty out.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Yeah it’s, for some reason that applies a lot to Thursday’s doesn’t it now?  So, today’s topic…we have to make this a little bit fun…so Darrin doesn’t always write the outlines for the show but we do our best to show up and talk about them and sometimes poke fun at him but have a good time and bring some value to the show.

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DARRIN T. MISH:  Absolutely.  So today we are going to talk about Figuring Out a Time Table to Ending your Tax Problems.  And you know it sounds a little bit dry but it’s really not.  We are going to talk probably a little bit about like some psychology today and the emotional problems that people have and making the decision to solve their problems and then ultimately taking that step because as we’ve talked about many times on the show.  This kind of problem, an IRS tax problem there’s an abnormally large amount of emotional baggage that is attached to it.  So, we’ve got a couple of hurdles here, we’ve got I mean I’ve never been through a 12-step program probably could of did it…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Are you ready to write a 12 step IRS program?

DARRIN T. MISH:  That’s not a bad idea but you know the first step I think is acknowledging hey this problem is in fact a problem.  There’s, I owe more money or at least the IRS is saying that I owe more money to the IRS then I can afford to just stroke a check.  I have this philosophy that says basically that if you have a problem that you can afford to write a check for it’s not going to hurt you or change your life then you do not have a problem.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  I will agree with that.

DARRIN T. MISH:  It’s not all that significant right so later today some guys are going to come out to fix the septic tank which if it’s not working is in fact a problem and I’m going to have to write a check but I can afford to write the check so it’s not really a problem right says a matter of having somebody…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  It’s an irritant.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yeah it’s like a noseeum, it’s like a gnat.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  A little nat.

DARRIN T. MISH:  You know those gnats the buzz around your face and buzz your ears and you can’t even swat them and they are just bugging you.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Punching yourself in the face to get rid of them.

DARRIN T. MISH:  So that’s what I think problems are where you can afford to stroke a check it’s just like a noseeum, for those of you are listening from up north a noseeum is just a gnat.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Oh yeah that’s right because we don’t have those in the north.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Well they have different bugs in the north you know up, we have our good friend Matt that’s a  friend of the show and he lives up in Michigan and I will tell you what I’ve been to Michigan in the summer time and they’ve got horse flies that bite and they, it’s not like oh I’m out in the woods and one fly flew by no it’s like you know remember those cartoons when we were kids when you know like Yogi Bear would get swarmed by bees and then he would have to go jump in the lake…


DARRIN T. MISH:  That’s what happens with horse flies up north in Michigan and Minnesota.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  They attack you.

DARRIN T. MISH:  They, you go you are like oh this is a beautiful day it’s a nice July day it’s 79 degrees and it’s just wonderful and the sun is shining and you go out for a hike and you get I don’t know 50 feet from the car and before you know it there’s 75 horse flies biting you and I can remember one time we actually have this on video we took the family up to lake Itasca which is where the Mississippi river starts, it’s up in Northern Minnesota and we decided we were going to take a nice walk in the woods and there is nobody around and we couldn’t figure out why there was nobody out there you know absolutely pristine and gorgeous well we must of gotten, I won’t exaggerate a hundred yards into the woods when we all started to be attacked by horse flies and so then we had to literally run back to the truck and the whole time we are laughing/terrified…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Could you not, was there not anything that you could spray on them or you can smack them if you are fast enough.

DARRIN T. MISH:  I don’t, you know they are so big that if you smack them it might you know…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Irritate them?

DARRIN T. MISH:  Probably gross you know probably splat, you know the blood-filled mosquito.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  I would rather splat it then have it bite me.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Well you can’t, it’s like a multi prong attack you can’t, you can’t swat them all there is just too many.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  I’ve never experienced that so this is all new for me.

DARRIN T. MISH:  So this is a very long tangent to say that if you have an IRS problem you have to decide at some point can I handle this and is this a problem, can I afford to stroke a check, make this go away or should I probably reach out to somebody else who might have a little bit more experience in dealing with these types of problems.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Now would you say most of your customers have the ability to take care of it or do you think maybe at one point they didn’t have the ability and now they think they might so they are coming to you for help to figure out how to fix it like what, who’s your client like?

DARRIN T. MISH:  When we are talking about ability are we talking about the ability to write the check or are we talking about the ability to just emotionally, mentally and intellectually handle the problem?

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Well the ability to write the check that’s the first…

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yeah a lot of people do in fact I had a consult just yesterday where, well a long-time client came in and the total amount of controversy was $5200 so she didn’t have to have the ability to write the check for $5200 all at once but she had to at least have the ability to write a check once a month for around a hundred dollars a month right?  So I still don’t think that that’s a significant problem unless you have a lot of bags a lot of hang ups about making that phone call to get that installment agreement and there are people that are like that and I totally respect that.  There’s you know I could probably going back to the septic guys that have to come out to the house today, I could probably theoretically do that job, not a job I want to do I’ve got a lot of hang-ups about that particular issue and I don’t want to do that.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  I don’t see it.


KATRINA MADEWELL:  If you say so but I don’t see it.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Katrina has been really hard on my lately that like so I just got this new place and I just got a chain saw and she doesn’t even believe that I can actually use the chain saw.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Oh my gosh.  I didn’t mean it like that.

DARRIN T. MISH:  So, so now I’ve got to go find you know like a 30,40,50 ft dead tree and like…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Take a video.

DARRIN T. MISH:  A video of me going all Paul Bunyan on her so that she can see the tree, actually falling and hitting the tree around, hopefully the ground hopefully not on me.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Ok so for as long as we’ve been in existence together hosting a show, the running joke is always being that you are not the guy, you got a guy.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yeah this is true.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  That’s always been the running joke so now I’m a jerk because you feel like I insinuated that you are not a manly man and all I said was that you used your brains…

DARRIN T. MISH:  But here’s the, here’s my challenge…This is true so here’s my actual problem that I have now is that I need so many guys to come out on this new property that I can’t afford all those guys so now I’ve got to figure out how to do stuff.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Gotta be the guy.

DARRIN T. MISH:  I gotta be the guy on some of these things you know.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Look all I’m saying is if you want help I will send my husband it’s not going to be me because I don’t even know how to start the chain saw it’s all I’m saying.

DARRIN T. MISH:  I don’t think starting it’s going to be the problem I got a lot of advice on social media to make sure to get all the safety gear which I….

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Yeah I just to make sure you don’t show up missing fingers or anything, I was genuinely concerned for you Darrin I didn’t mean anything other than concern that was it.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Alright I promise I’ll start slow and I’ll graduate to you know going all Paul Bunyan ok.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  And ask for help if you need it it’s all I’m saying.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Well I will tell you right now if….

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Don’t be one of those guys that don’t ask for directions.

DARRIN T. MISH:  If I’m not enjoying it I won’t do it because I do have the guys that can do this but I have this huge tree on my property that’s fallen and it’s just ugly and it’s a mess and…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  You have fire wood.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Except we don’t have a wood burning fireplace but that’s a different issue.


DARRIN T. MISH:  So I will have to get a guy you know….

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Are you going to teach your son how to do this?

DARRIN T. MISH:  Eventually.


DARRIN T. MISH:  Eventually.


DARRIN T. MISH:  So part of my challenge is I didn’t have you know I didn’t have a father figure that took, taught me a lot of that stuff when I was growing up so.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  You ended up alright though?

DARRIN T. MISH:  I think so.  So back to the, to the topic of the show…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  The real show.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Which is Figuring out A Time Table to Ending your Tax Problem so here’s something that I see a lot.  I see because of the mental, emotional anxiety wrapped around the IRS and the owing money to the IRS in general.  There’s kind of two types of people, the most common is the kind person that is kind of like ehh it’s usually  a guy, women don’t do this as often, it’s usually a guy and he’s like you know I’ll get to that someday and I will deal with that and I’ve literally have had clients that I couldn’t get to move off of doing nothing for 3-5 years, I mean just can’t get them to do anything….

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Just frozen in beer.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Just frozen, just you know they don’t want to deal, they like the idea that they have somebody to deal with it but they are not dealing with it they are not getting us documentation to do tax returns, they are not getting us documentation to prove their finances things like that…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Isn’t that called paralysis analysis I think there is a word for that.

DARRIN T. MISH:  It’s called chronic procrastination the problem is they are not analyzing anything so it’s not paralysis analysis they are not analyzing anything they are just stuck and there are people that just like the idea of having me in place you know with a power of attorney, that sort of a safety shield but there’s limits to what we can do you know and the other kind of person is the kind of person is like ok darn it I made the decision and you know smack the table, I want it over today.


DARRIN T. MISH:  Well unless you are going to do an online payment for the full amount to the IRS it’s probably not going to be over today it’s going to take a while it’s a process and depending upon you know the solution that we decide to put into place it’s going to take either months or you know even many months.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  And we will talk about that guy as well as where you live because that may have a big impact on actually how long it takes to get your case finalized.  You are listening to the IRS Solution Attorney show we have to take a real quick break stick around and we will be back in just a minute.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Welcome back you are listening to the IRS Solution Attorney show with Mr…

DARRIN T. MISH:  The Solution, the IRS Solution Attorney…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Yeah that guy Darrin T. Mish.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Darrin T. Mish.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  I’ll get his name right for him even when he can’t.  I’m your co-host Katrina Madewell and we were talking about some of the mental aspects if you have some of these big problems like an IRS issue and also trying to figure out how to put up a time line on how to actually end this tax problem and the earlier segment we did babble a lot and Darrin said it was taking long it wasn’t but outside of that I was asking him who his clients were and they were like you know  just kind of frozen not do anything or they jump right in and I think that is where we left off.

DARRIN T. MISH:  You know my stereo typical client if there is such a thing is usually an independent contractor type of person, person that gets a 1099 of any kind really and gets caught sort of shorthanded you know they weren’t expecting the big tax bill or sometimes there have been people that are, have been receiving 1099’s for years and years and it’s not really they are caught short handed or caught by surprise they just don’t have any system what’s so ever to make sure that they pay their taxes and then there is another type of guy who gets a 1099 and really doesn’t make enough money to pay the taxes and that’s another problem you know all by itself.  One gentleman that comes to mind is I’ve represented this house painter for many years, I think he does primarily interior house painting, I think he might do some exterior to but when we’ve run the math I mean I’ve know this gentleman for 10 or 12 years, I’ve run the math on what he actually earns on an hourly basis and it’s so low that he literally would be better working the paint counter and Sherwin-Williams then he does painting houses and he’s getting up there in age, he’s probably around 60 now, not that that’s old but you know house painting is manual labor..


DARRIN T. MISH:  And I’m not quite 50 and I don’t want to be painting houses all day that sounds like actual hard work you know.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Yes it’s funny that you mentioned that because my mother-in-law is going to be in the process of a move soon and Chris and I were talking and we were like, he says yeah my mom wants us to go move a couch and I said can we please just pay movers to move her because we are just getting to old to be moving all that stuff up and down stairs.

DARRIN T. MISH:  You just scared me right now you were looking at me and I was like oh no she is going to ask me, she’s going to ask me to move her mother-in-law live on the air here because she knows that I drive a pickup truck…


DARRIN T. MISH:  I’ve been talking about being a manly man but I can tell you right now me and moving furniture is not a pretty site.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Well no we have a truck to and I was just going to say that I don’t want to move it either so I would rather pay somebody a few bucks to move her…

DARRIN T. MISH:  If it’s just a couch…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  With the time that I don’t have…

DARRIN T. MISH:  I would probably be willing to move a couch…

KATRINA MADEWELL:   Well that what it started with which is the couch…

DARRIN T. MISH:  One couch…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  That is what they ask but you know it’s never just the couch like can we just figure all this out in the same day and just get it done that is what I’m thinking.

DARRIN T. MISH:  It’s a couch and 16 pickup truck loads you know later, hey thanks for moving my couch.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Yeah, appreciate the help today anyway yeah we have a lot of fun in between but we were talking about the time line in relation to where you live.

DARRIN T. MISH:  So some of the things that can impact how, the timeline on how to you know handle the tax problem is could be where you live.  I will give you an example we are here in the

Tampa Bay area and it does not appear to me that revenue officers are overly taxed and overly stressed you know and have huge caseloads.  Revenue officer is a IRS person who handles a case in a local area so it’s like, a revenue officer gets involved when the case has been escalated somewhat so then there is actually a human being, a person who handles the case, goes out to your place of business or residence and says hi I’m here from the government I’m here to help.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Is that what they really say? I’m here to help?

DARRIN T. MISH:  No that’s…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Ok.  Just checking.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Just because it’s so funny right I mean I’m from the government and I’m here to help. Ok that doesn’t ever work…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  I’m curious what they do say you have to ask some of your clients what the revenue officer showed up and say hey by the way what exactly do they say when they came?

DARRIN T. MISH:  I’ll tell you hi I’m John Smith I’m a revenue officer with the Internal Revenue Service you owe us $167,238.00 and I would like that check right now please.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Is that what they say or do they just wait for an answer after they drop the bomb on how much you owe or do they ask like how do you intend to repay us I’m just really curious about that.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Well we get a lot of written correspondence from revenue officers and there’s always a demand with a deadline for full payment no matter how big the number is so I’m pretty sure they probably ask for full payment you know right there on the spot.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  And they say well I don’t have the money and they say well how soon will you have the money right is it something like this?

DARRIN T. MISH:  I don’t know…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Is it that bold?

DARRIN T. MISH:  We should do a show on the 4 different types of revenue officers at some point in time but little beyond the scope of today’s outline even though we’ve talked about chainsaws, horseflies…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Do you think we could invite the revenue officers and it would be like yes that would be really fun radio but that’s probably not what you want to do right…

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yeah I’m going to say they probably don’t have authorization to do that but anyways so…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So let’s see if we can invite the customers and we will ask them what they said.

DARRIN T. MISH:  So let’s talk about you know where you live.  I can tell you that in Tampa Bay we don’t seem to have this huge backlog but in Texas I have some Texas cases, in Texas you’ve got to owe just a tremendous amount of money before a revenue officer is assigned to the case.  I have a payroll case…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Cause everything’s bigger in Texas.

DARRIN T. MISH:  I think, I guess so I think what it is, is there is more money in Texas especially when oil was booming just recently and so the numbers are just a lot bigger so that they are prioritized.  I have a payroll case in Texas that I’ve been handling for a couple of years and I think the balance due is over $200,000 and if this was in Tampa we’d have a revenue officer and there would be all kinds of crazy pressure and things like that, but that’s in Texas so $200,000 is not that much.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So it’s all relative not only how long but how much you owe depending on the area that’s interesting.

DARRIN T. MISH:  And the type of your tax problem, is it income tax, payroll tax…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Yeah how complex it is.

DARRIN T. MISH:  It might be, sometimes your profession or occupation could come into play to I will give you an example.


DARRIN T. MISH:  You know doctors and lawyers get singled out for special treatment.


DARRIN T. MISH:  Politicians sure, judge or that would be nice and juicy.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  They want to make an example.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yeah you know I have lots of lawyer clients, I’ve said that before on the air and I’ve, one that I’m representing I think he had a $9,000 payroll tax problem and about a $50,000 income tax problem so…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  All at once 2 different things going on.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yeah but that’s the culmination of those 2 is not that significant compared to lots of other people that I represent that don’t have revenue officers and I think it’s because of his profession.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So he underpaid what he owed and he didn’t pay the regular payroll taxes that he owes is that what you are saying something like that?

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yes I would choose to say that…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  In a nut shell.

DARRIN T. MISH:  He got behind on his payroll taxes because you know times are tough and on his income tax yeah it just didn’t work out you know so he didn’t get them all paid but we are going to solve that case, it’s going to be a situation where the IRS is going to get their money but it’s an example of you know being assigned, a revenue officer being assigned to a case that otherwise there wouldn’t be a revenue officer assigned.  I would say typically if you are not one of those special categories here in the Tampa Bay area where you are a doctor, lawyer, politician, judge that kind of thing, you are probably not going to have a revenue officer until the, for an income tax case until the figure exceeds a hundred thousand dollars and probably not even then, there is just so many people that owes so much money.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  You deal with somebody online at the toll-free number up until that point.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Usually, yeah usually toll free number and then we do everything in writing.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  I mean I tell people this all the time we look at credit and it’s funny I’m looking at the outline and one of the notes on here is tax problems take a long time to create, they can take a long time to fix and it’s the same thing we tell people with credit like if they come and they have jacked up credit we are like you didn’t make this mess in a month or two months or three months this was over a long period of time, it’s going to take you some time to unwind all this and it would be no different for IRS issues correct?

DARRIN T. MISH:  For sure in my business you know part of the problem, part of the challenge is we have to acknowledge we have a problem but the second thing we have to do we have to do, we have to gather some data so we can analyze what the right solution is and then number 3 we have to put the solution into place.  Now if we are going to do an offer in compromise which we talked about on the show a lot were you make a deal to settle for less, I mean that process in and of itself is going to take anywhere from 4 months on the super speedy short and you know your finances are super simple and you are broke, that’s the fastest I’ve ever gotten an offer thru is 4 months and on the long end it’s going to take 18 months and the IRS technically by statute has up to 2 years so…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  And the IRS they don’t always give you an offer in compromise (OIC), we talk about it a lot on the show but not everybody is not eligible for that right?

DARRIN T. MISH:  Absolutely not. Everybody is eligible and very, very few people walk in off the street you know perfect candidates for an offer in compromise, some people need missing returns prepared and filed, some people need some, some changes to their financial life quite frankly in order to become better candidates for offers in compromise.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So we have to take a quick break here when we come back in a few minutes we will touch on some other things like how complex the problem is, if you’ve given the IRS everything, what all they need and we are also going to give you a tip on giving the IRS to much information stick around we will be back in just a minute.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Welcome back you are listening to the IRS Solution Attorney show.

DARRIN T. MISH:  I’m your host THE IRS Solution Attorney Darrin T. Mish.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  I’m your co-host Katrina Madewell we’re talking all about figuring out a time line to actually fix this tax wreck that you have gotten yourself into and we have talked about several different things in the earlier part of the show.  If you, you know if we are talking about something other than the gibber gabber that we like to entertain you guys with sometimes and you want to catch the whole thing in its entirety you can over on the podcast.

DARRIN T. MISH:  On the podcast right now it’s still called The IRS Problem Solver it’s soon to be changing its name to The IRS Solution Attorney so check both, check my name Darrin, D-A-R-R-I-N last name is M-I-S-H or you can download our app for sure from the ITunes store as well as the Android store as well.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  And Darrin has a lot of content up not only in podcast but videos, a ton of information.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yeah we have a ridiculous amount of information on my website at  I know for a fact that competitors use that information to figure out how to solve their cases and you know what I’m kind of ok with that.


DARRIN T. MISH:  And the reason is, you know there is more people with tax problems out there than I could possibly ever personally handle and I’m actually passionate about making sure that I help improve people’s lives and so they don’t stress out about this stuff and suffer because you know they made a decision that you or I could of easily have made perhaps have made in the past and it’s just seems like there is an abnormal amount of suffering that is revolved around IRS tax problems.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So going back to the outline talking a little bit about the time line to ending the tax problem and one of them is how complex it is, so can you give just a couple of different examples on a few different tax issues and a rough time table to it for each of those?

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yeah generally speaking income tax problems are easier to solve then payroll tax problems.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So I mean at the end of the year if you owe a balance you didn’t pay it?

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yeah you file a 1040 and you have a balance and it’s you know you didn’t pay it that’s an income tax problem that’s not generally as complicated as a payroll tax problem.  A payroll tax problem would be where you’re the person that is running the business and you have actual  employees that you are supposed to be withholding taxes for and you don’t do that.  If you don’t do that then there’s you know a couple of steps to go through before you could actually solve the problem and it’s just….

KATRINA MADEWELL: Technically they did like if it wasn’t in your employees paycheck then you did withhold the, the IRS sees that as like not sending that money to them right away.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yeah we’ve been talking we need to do a whole show on payroll tax problems but basically a lot of people, a lot of employers pay what’s called net payroll ok so let me try to give you an example let’s say your employee is supposed to receive a thousand dollars a pay period, a week say, a thousand dollars a week and instead the employer on paper withholds the taxes and so the employee only gets 850 right so the employer pays, writes the check for 850 gives it to the employee, employee is like ok well you know Uncle Sam took his bite whatever, well if the employer never turns that money over to the IRS then he didn’t actually withhold, he didn’t really, well I guess in that scenario he withheld it but it’s really he’s paying net payroll.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  He withheld it alright.  Just not the way the IRS was looking for.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yeah.  So anyway, so the more complex your problem is generally speaking the longer it’s going to take to resolve.  I will give you another idea of complexity. One of the prerequisites to solving the tax problem is that all, you know at least the last 6 years returns have to have been prepared and filed.  Well many people come into the office and they don’t have any returns prepared for the last 6 years and furthermore their financial lives are really complicated and kind of a mess and it’s going to take a lot of work to get those returns done.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  But the good news is that if they haven’t filed taxes in 20 years they only have to go back 6, right?  Sort of most cases?

DARRIN T. MISH:  In most cases, I have one right now where the IRS fighting me on that, I’ve shown them the section in the internal revenue manual and they’re still fighting me on it.  If they are listening I have a special surprise in store for them on this one that I’m not going to disclose…


DARRIN T. MISH:  But it’s a special little surprise and I’m still going to win.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  It will be a train wreck when we just not this one.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Maybe yeah probably not this week, coming back to how long these things take I’ve been representing that client on and off for 10 years…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Wow like different times, different issues I was going to say there is no way one thing could take 10 years.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Well he keeps generating new issues.  And I haven’t heard from him in a while but it’s going to take a few more months to resolve entirely but it’s going to come out ok I think.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So another thing is have you given the IRS everything they need to actually fix the problem so this leads me to 2 questions Darrin what all do they need and what happens if they get it in pieces?

DARRIN T. MISH:  Well generally speaking the IRS is going to ask for a collection information statement ok so that is a fancy term for financial statement and what they are trying to do is they are trying to measure the value of assets if any usually there aren’t any or very little and cash flow on a monthly basis.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  The ability to pay.

DARRIN T. MISH:  And so for an individual that’s called a form 433A for a business it’s called form 433B but so they want a 433 A or B and they are going to want bank statements and it’s one of those situations where if you are just dealing with the IRS with a rep or without a rep they are not going to, particularly with a revenue officer, they are not going to be able to make a decision and will not make a decision until you provide them all the necessary documentation and that leads us to the next bullet point here and that is did you give too much information.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  And that was my question is what is an example of too much information?  And is this a pickle that people I’m sure they get in on their own right and they are coming to see you and now you are trying to unwind that does that happen?

DARRIN T. MISH:  Sure.  So.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  What’s an example of too much information?

DARRIN T. MISH:  Ok so let’s say you owe the IRS $50,000 and no let me make it a little higher make it $60,000 and you call the IRS up and you are not represented, you don’t know what you are doing and you call them up and you say hey I want to, I want to do an installment agreement on this and they say ok well we need to ask you a few questions and one of the first questions is do you, you know do you have any money in the bank and you say oh yeah I’ve got 75 grand in cash in my checking account, umm that would be an example of too much information because now all of your avenues to resolution are pretty much sealed off, not quite all but a lot of them are sealed off and now the answer is going to be just pay us now.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So do you think they would immediately step up their plan to go in and freeze the bank account and swoop the money?

DARRIN T. MISH:  If you had a revenue officer I would venture to say probably yes if you did not have a revenue officer and you were dealing with what’s called the automation collection system or ACS, maybe not.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Well in that scenario where you called them do you think they would assign a revenue officer to kind of expedite that process after that call?

DARRIN T. MISH:  Sometimes I think it depends on how much you owe, where you live, how backed up they are and that kind of thing. What’s interesting is a lot of cases are easier to resolve with a revenue officer then trying to deal with ACS and here’s why, it’s complicated…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  They are more educated right in the process?

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yeah it’s complicated, revenue officers are better trained, they are better compensated, you have one point of contact.  You know when you call ACS you don’t ever, I’ve never spoken to the same person twice ever in my entire career never spoken to the same person twice.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Well they transfer you all over the country right to different offices?

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yes so you are going to talk to all kinds of people of varying motivation levels you know and various attitudes and so a lot of times we would like the case to be transferred to a revenue officer because it would facilitate you know a resolution and I’ll be darned if you don’t call the IRS they you know ACS and say hey I want this case transferred to a revenue officer and they will say no…


DARRIN T. MISH:  They will say no not you have to work with us but that same…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  They can do that?

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yeah they can but that same case if you were to call and take a different approach you could probably basically encourage them….

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Push them to do it.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yeah to assign it to a revenue officer so you could get a better, pushed out into the field so that you could get a handle easier.  So, those are the types of things where if you are trying to represent yourself I mean…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Don’t do that.

DARRIN T. MISH:  You are literally inventing the wheel as you are trying to use the wheel so it’s not going to work out very well, it’s not going to roll very efficiently at least and so I’ve been saying this lately and that is I’ve handled so many cases in my career now that I’ve probably made more decisions then most guys, or more, more mistakes honestly or more bad decisions in representing clients then other guys that have represented clients.


DARRIN T. MISH:  Yeah so that’s kind of a weird statement but here is what I mean by that is every time you make a decision that didn’t work out as well as you like you course correct and you become better…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  You got the experience from that.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yeah you don’t actually learn from being right.


DARRIN T. MISH:  You learn from mistakes and if they are wrong…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  That’s what experience like you can’t put a price on that it’s the trials, tribulations the, the experience lack, the stories all that stuff that goes into it.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yeah so every time we’ve made, and when I say bad decisions I’m not talking about decisions that hurt people I’m talking about decisions like I made a call and I wanted them to transfer it to a revenue officer and they didn’t.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So you learned how to make them do it how not to make them do it.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yeah so I am like mental note don’t ever use that approach again cause that just didn’t work.


DARRIN T. MISH:  So the next time I call on that very same client I wait on hold for 2 hours and then finally I get to talk to somebody, I you know totally approach it a different way and it comes out a different you know with a different result.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So what about if someone’s had a previous IRS problem like you mentioned your ongoing guy for 10 years like is his time line going to be any different for someone that has never had an issue with the IRS or maybe only had one little hiccup with the IRS like does that have any bearing or weight in A:  How you solve a case and B: How long it takes to get it done?

DARRIN T. MISH:  You know yes and no so there’s your lawyer answer.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  I know, right?  Gosh.

DARRIN T. MISH:  If it’s recent past and let’s say…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  What’s recent past 3 years?

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yeah the last few years.


DARRIN T. MISH:  And the case is reassigned to the same revenue officer who handled it before I’m going to suggest that it’s probably not going to go as smoothly as it did the first time ok?


DARRIN T. MISH:  Unless there’s extenuating circumstances you know your house burnt down or you know you are going through a divorce or mental illness or alcoholism or gambling or something you know.  If it’s just like I did the same irresponsible thing again…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So if they are a repeat IRS debtor offender…

DARRIN T. MISH:  Where you really…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Do they usually expedite that process through going I guess.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Somewhat.  Where you really see it is in the context of payroll taxes where you have employers who kind of bail themselves out and then they go back to the same behavior and they do it some more that’s actually called pyramiding and that’s a really bad thing but you know if you had an IRS tax problem 12 years ago you know and you owed some income tax 12 years ago and you got an installment agreement and you paid it off and now you owe more money that’s not going to be held against you that’s very typical that’s very normal…


DARRIN T. MISH:  And then I have people come in and say things like well you know I paid my taxes on time every year for 40 years don’t I catch a break, well…


DARRIN T. MISH:  Kinda sometimes…


DARRIN T. MISH:  Through something called first time penalty abatement that is available to everyone but no I mean it’s just, the IRS the way they look at it is that’s just part of the price of being a citizen and you are supposed to pay your taxes that’s….

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So what about if you are easy to deal with or your attorney’s easy or hard to deal with does that have a weigh in on how your case might go?

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yeah I would say that if you are dealing with a revenue officer in particular and your attorney is easier to deal with than not then you are probably going to have a smoother resolution process, if your attorney is really adversarial and wants to fight every revenue officer on every issue probably not going to work out that well.  Now there are times when you have to stand, as the attorney you have to stand and fight.  If you have a newer revenue officer who doesn’t know you and doesn’t know what your professional level of expertise is they are going to try and punk you so you got to stand up and fight.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Sweet.  Well you are listening to the IRS Solution Attorney show that is Mr. Darrin Mish he is the host of the show and I’m your co-host Katrina Madewell.  When we come back in just a minute we are going to answer some questions from our listeners and we are also going to give you some news stories segments and we have a great train wreck of the week stick around and we will be back in a moment.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Welcome back you are listening to the IRS Solution Attorney show and if you missed the earlier part of the show with Darrin Mish and myself Katrina Madewell we were talking all about how to figure out the timeline to fix this tax problem and Darrin of course gave you the lawyer answer that says maybe or depends.  I love it.

DARRIN T. MISH:  It’s really hard to say you know because it really does depend on every case but I think it boils down to 3 things, you’ve got to decide you have a problem, decide that you are going to deal with the problem and then you have to come up with the solution to the problem and that’s ultimately that last prong is going to dictate how long things take.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Well if you have questions you can ask Darrin on Twitter @darrin_mish and we will answer them on the air, you can also ask them on Facebook just look for him or email him the questions right just go to the website

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yes and we have a new Facebook page which is The IRS Solution Attorney.  So that’s pretty easy, there’s actually a picture of me on there acting all goofy in the studio.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Fanstastic.  And you can chat message that question we will answer them so.  Which leads me to our first question from Seth.  Seth, thank you for listening to the show. What is a split refund?  I don’t even know the answer to that so I’m glad you can answer it, thank you for the question Seth.

DARRIN T. MISH:  A split refund let’s you divide your refund in any proportion you want and direct deposit the funds into up to 3 different accounts with US banks for financial institution so I don’t know why you would want to do this, have not really thought about but you could, let’s say you had a refund of $3000 exactly you could say I want a thousand bucks to go to Bank of America, a thousand to go to Chase and a thousand bucks to Wells Fargo.  I’m not sure why you would want to do it but you can do it, it’s called a split refund.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  It’s sounds to me like there’s more to the question than Seth left us with…

DARRIN T. MISH:  Probably.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So if you would like to give us more of the question we could probably answer that a little better for you or let me rephrase that Darrin will answer that for you better.  So, David also has a question he wants to know to qualify for Head of Household filing status do I have to claim my child as a dependent?

DARRIN T. MISH:  Short answer is in most cases head of household is a single parent raising a child alone, you know without the other spouse in the household but there are some situations where your head of household because you have some other custodial, or you have some other dependent in the house so it could be, technically it could be your parent for example and that’s sort of the answer.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Alright so we will touch on this news segment really quick, we don’t write the outlines let me tell you sometimes we just chat about them but another good reason not to get married courtesy of the IRS so for a few people that have been married their whole life we will go ahead and share the story Darrin.

DARRIN T. MISH:  So according to this story there is actually a new tax break for couples who don’t tie the knot, unmarried couples can deduct effectively twice as much as there mortgage and home interest on their tax returns thanks to a change this month by the Internal Revenue Service so there’s been a marriage tax in place for a long time and the marriage tax is basically that if you are married as opposed to just co-habitating then your tax rate is actually higher if you are married so it costs more to file married filing separate then it does to file single.  This has been going on for quite some time, you know when the whole gay marriage then hit I was kind of chuckling in the background because I was like ok I’m all for equality and all that stuff but I’m not sure these people are actually gonna, are actually know what they are getting in for so not only, now they are getting married which is fine and great and dandy and all that stuff but now they have to get divorce and now there tax rates have gone up and so again it’s…


DARRIN T. MISH:  You got to be careful about what you wish for so anyway there has been a marriage tax in place for quite some time with the IRS and this is just another example of it.  The government has to be careful about what, how it uses the tax code to encourage…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Do you hear that it’s that time of the show.

DARRIN T. MISH:  This is the segment of the show that we call the IRS train wreck of the week.  The reason it’s called that is because it’s typically about someone who has come into the office and their situation is just literally a train wreck and after we work with them they typically, so far every time in every one of these segments they come out really, really good.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  That’s right.  Cause they would not make the cut of the train wreck of the week.

DARRIN T. MISH:   They would not in fact because I am not here to be talking about bad train wrecks.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  And today’s train wreck is a little different right it’s a review?

DARRIN T. MISH:  It is, I need just a moment here I had it up.  So today is actually a review from a guy that I am proud to represent.  He is an active duty Major in the United States Army he’s had many tours of combat in both Iraq and Afghanistan, it’s kind of been a recurring theme lately, this is not the same guy that I’ve spoken about in the past.  This particular gentleman came in with a letter, I believe it was a CP2000 and the IRS was purposing that he actually owed a little bit more than $24,000 in additional tax and actually the Major was really helpful he let me know that this particular tax would be in violation of a particular federal statute that dealing with US service people ok  because he was in combat for so long and I quoted him a fee and I signed him up,  and then I don’t know if it was that day or the next day I called, I thought I had been thinking about him and he was, another thing you need to know about this gentleman is he is in chronic pain, he has had severe back injuries due to his time in the service and in combat and he just really has to deal with chronic pain all the time and I could tell, you could tell when you, when you met him that the was in a great deal of pain and we talked about it for quite some time.  Well about a day or 2 after we signed him up I gave him a call and I said you know I’m going to go ahead and take care of this case pro bono because you know you are a hero in my eyes and because you went overseas and fought for us then that meant that I didn’t have to and we can be free and live in this country, this great country of ours and so I wrote the letter and we waited and it took about 14 weeks but he sent me a message on Facebook on Saturday or Sunday,  I think it was Sunday actually and he let me know that the IRS had completely zeroed out that tax liability because of this really relative simple thing that I did for him and you know I knew that it would make a big difference in his life because on an Army Major’s salary $24,000 is a lot of money and it was really unfair and it really kind of made me angry to be honest with you that this gentleman, I think he had served like 8 tours, 8 combat tours…


DARRIN T. MISH:  And our government, the same government that writes his paycheck wants another $24,000 and it just kind of made me mad and it just made me decide that he needed somebody who would stick up for him and I just happened to be that guy in that particular circumstance.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So what did he say to you?

DARRIN T. MISH:  Well I’m going to try and read this I don’t know if we have enough time but I will read this review.  So, as I feel that review writing is important for only 2 reasons to warn consumers to avoid a certain product or service provider that they are below standard or to provide accolades as a result of exceptional service or satisfaction that goes way beyond the average, I’m honored to say that the law offices of Darrin T. Mish to include his staff fit into the latter of the 2.  So without going into finite detail the  IRS contacted me with their belief that he owed a bunch of money ok I just got the work I only have a minute so basically he says:  In conclusion that there will be service providers that will be worth mentioning and even rate being referred to with confidence, the law offices of Darrin T. Mish, there business ethics and abilities and Darrin’s personal attributes go way beyond this level of honorary mention.  Regardless of the amount in challenge do not wait to address your problems with the IRS cause they are not going away and most importantly to avoid later regrets do not hesitate to contact Darrin Mish or his office if you are being questioned by the IRS.  Exercise your right to resolve and allow the law offices of Darrin T. Mish to stand firm on your behalf.  And you know it just made me feel good.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  I love that.  The only thing better I think would be in his voice so I say it all the time we have to invite some of your clients on.

DARRIN T. MISH:  He would probably get on the show and tell the story better than I ever could.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Well I think that’s about all the time that we have for this week don’t forget we are here to help you if you have IRS questions you can get Darrin at 888-get-mish.

DARRIN T. MISH:  That’s 888-438-6474, 888-438-6474.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Thank you for listening to the IRS Solution Attorney show we will be back same time, same place next week.

DARRIN T. MISH:  We’re out.

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