Burying Your IRS Problems Won’t Make Them Go Away‏

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DARRIN T. MISH:  Welcome to the IRS Solution Attorney show I am your host and THE IRS Solution Attorney Darrin T. Mish.  For those of you who are regular listeners to the show you know that I have a lovely and talented co-host Katrina Madewell and Miss Madewell well apparently misjudged her drive time today, now in fairness, I’m going to be slightly fair to Katrina here for a moment.  You know traffic in the Tampa Bay area this morning is really a mess, I guess there’s an overturned car on the Howard Franklin Bridge and the Gandy bridge is a mess.  She was the one that insisted that I take the Gandy bridge and instead of taking her sage advice I decided to just use my handy dandy ways App and it told me to take the…..

PAT:  See right there on the left.

DARRIN T. MISH:  So apparently Miss Madewell is joining us by phone today, how are you?

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Oh I’m on the Gandy bridge about a mile out, in bumper to bumper traffic.

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DARRIN T. MISH:  Well you know this happened one time when we were on another show and thankfully nobody actually listened to that station because I was really, really nervous and I was really, really terrible on that occasion and I think I’m a little bit more comfortable today, plus I have an old radio veteran here Pat George who is here to bail me out if I start to….

PAT:  You are doing fine.

DARRIN T. MISH:  So apparently it’s really bad traffic, you are stuck in traffic, but Katrina I’m really…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  I know you are used to me sitting right their next to you holding my hand and now I’m like in the car doing the show with you.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yeah usually your hand actually turns red because I’m squeezing it so hard because I’m so scared.  It’s like someone who has….

KATRINA MADEWELL:  No he doesn’t.

DARRIN T. MISH:  It’s like someone who has a phobia…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  He’s the IRS Attorney he’s a…..

PAT:  And you know people get into accidents when they talk on the phone Katrina so why don’t you just come here to the radio station.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yeah she is probably not using a hands free device.

PAT:  She probably is not.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Yes I am, I’m on my Bluetooth and I am on the phone all the time, I’m a real estate agent what are you thinking.

PAT:  Oh yes sorry I blew up you are right.

DARRIN T. MISH:  So you know Katrina today, we have a really exciting show, it’s really cool.  We’ve done this once before with him by phone but we’ve never done, never had an actual client live in studio today and today we have John who is actually one of my clients and he’s a really great guy I’ve known him for a long time.  You are going to hear that story in a minute.  But John is here today joining us in studio.  I don’t think his mic’s on though.

JOHN:  It’s on now glad to be here.

DARRIN T. MISH:  How are you doing John?

JOHN:   Doing well, glad to be in the control center and seeing things and listening to the show all the time, it’s just awesome to be here and see what you guys do.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yeah it’s a lot of fun, it’s kind of, it’s kind of neat, there is a lot of electronic gadgets in here and everybody here at the station is really nice and friendly and helpful and all that kind of thing.

JOHN:  Yeah but the traffic here is crazy how do you, you know I’m not from Tampa so I’m not going to throw to much shade on what’s going on.

PAT:  We can tell by that accent that you are not from Tampa.

JOHN:  Yeah don’t hold that against me.

PAT:  It sounds like you are almost from Canada.  Where are you from?

JOHN:  Almost, almost.  Up in Michigan, up in Lansing Michigan so pretty close to Canada.

DARRIN T. MISH:  It sounds like he enjoys cheese doesn’t it?

JOHN:  I do like cheese.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  You know that traffic is usually not this bad I mean I would say and Pat George would probably back me up but it would take anybody commuting in this traffic at least an extra hour to get wherever they are going minimum if they are heading in that direction.

PAT:  And speaking of cheese and you being out there in the traffic you know maybe you would need to stop and buy us breakfast Katrina, take your time, get us breakfast.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yeah lets…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  I’ll take you out for breakfast after the show.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Donuts, something like that.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  I don’t even have coffee this morning.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Oh well that’s actually a reason that you are still in traffic you didn’t get your coffee and so you didn’t have the lead foot but you know I live in…..

KATRINA MADEWELL:  I knew I was going to get heckled.  I knew it.

DARRIN T. MISH:  I live in Pasco County and it took me 2 hours and 15 minutes to get to the studio here today in St. Petersburg and you know what I still had enough time…

PAT:  And it normally takes you how long?

DARRIN T. MISH:  Usually takes about an hour and a half just because of the time of day.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Yeah but you know what, ok I’m going to throw Darrin under the bus because his wife Heather takes the kids to school where my husband goes to school earlier than me and I have to drop my oldest one at school on the way to the studio.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Well you know there is a little saying about excuses but I won’t say that on the air.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  That’s fine.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Anyway…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Totally fine.  You know I have been telling you for a while cause you know every week Darrin talks about you know all these crazy stories that we solved, some of them are fabulous some of them are not as wonderful as the one the week  before but in any case he always gets through it and I tell him all the time why don’t you bring your customers in the studio like, ask some of your clients if they will  come share their stories, they don’t even have to give their real names but I think just hearing it from somebody else like John you know versus you and I talk about it every week Darrin, it’s different.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yeah for sure.  You know John is actually you know fairly, intimately involved in my business as well because he started out as a vendor to me, he does some content creation and some internet kind of stuff for lack of a better term for me on the Internet and the great thing about John was, well first of all we ended up being friends because we have so much in common, he is such a great guy but then the funny thing about John’s story is, so he knows that I’m the IRS Solution Attorney, he helps, actually he helps write the outline’s for the shows, without John doing the outlines the show would not be as good as it is and but it took John a year or so to tell me that he actually had a tax problem and I thought that was interesting, tell me a little bit about why, why it took you so long.

JOHN:  Well I was hiding it from you, I buried it deep and I, my wife said, my wife she goes you got to talk to Darrin about our tax problem and I was like well in good time and you know once I started to listen to your show more and starting listening to you and interacting with you I just got, felt a lot safer to come to you and tell you that I had a problem.

DARRIN T. MISH:  So it sounds to me like almost that you had some, I don’t mean this in a harsh way but you almost had some emotional baggage wrapped up in that.

JOHN:  It was mostly emotional.

DARRIN T. MISH:  And even though you know you and I had developed a genuine friendship and you know you knew what kind of person I was and you heard by after a year lots of stories, it’s still you just didn’t feel comfortable telling me about the fact that you have a tax problem and it was probably because you just felt like you know maybe you were the only person who had made mistakes like you had made is that kind of how it was?

JOHN:  It was more I was ashamed, I didn’t want to really tell you, I mean you are a great client, you are my friend and I don’t tell my other friends my problems, I try to keep my problems to myself and I try to solve the problems myself and so yeah I was burying it and didn’t want to tell you about it because mostly I was embarrassed over it.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yeah that’s really, it’s really insightful to hear that because you know I have been helping clients with tax problems for like I don’t know 16 or 17 years and the idea that a prospect or a client or a person would be  that ashamed of having just a problem that I talked about every single day all day that it’s really kind of refreshing to hear your perspective because obviously now in hindsight there was no real reason to be ashamed, I mean if I passed judgement on every client that I ever represented I mean I would be judging the whole world constantly and that’s not really how I am wired.  You know I’ve shared on air before and I will do it here again, I have actually had a tax problem and that’s how I got into the business of tax problem resolution was I had actually gone to law school and in law school they don’t teach you anything, like nothing on how to run a business or how to run a law firm and so I could remember vaguely an accountant that I was usually kind of vaguely explain you are supposed to make estimated tax payments and this is how you don’t fall behind on your taxes and stuff, I was a young buck and I can remember kind of nodding and in my inner voice was kind of like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah that doesn’t sound like fun, I’m not going to do that and so I ended owing quite a bit of money to the IRS and when I went to look for help, and I was ashamed I could remember that now, now that you mentioned it.  I was ashamed  and I can remember going out and looking for help and I just couldn’t find any help and so I kind of had to just kind of figure it out and I can remember this very vividly I was either engaged or I can’t remember if I was dating my wife, engaged or newly married but she didn’t know and the last thing in the world I wanted her to know is I owed the IRS like 20 grand which in hindsight is laughable cause it is such a small amount of money but compared to what I deal with every day but I can remember really being fearful of rejection that if she found out she wouldn’t love me and you know she would leave and things like that.  Ultimately that’s not what happened I mean she was just as understanding as can be which is great cause it turned out to be a great life partnership but I can remember that shame and there really is no need just because it’s a problem that people, people are making decisions today that are going to lead to tax problems in the future.  Now if you know better you probably shouldn’t do that but there is a lot of people like you, you kind of didn’t know better is that right?

JOHN:  Yeah you mentioned estimated tax payments I had no idea what that was and I definitely I didn’t want to give away any of the money I was making I was just out having fun spending money and my income had, my monthly income had become what my annual income had been the year before so all of a sudden there was all this extra money in my bank account and that man we could go do all the things we, the fun things you get to do with money and so yeah I didn’t know anything about the taxes and it snuck up on me.

DARRIN T. MISH:  So John that’s our signal that we are coming up on a break.  When we come back we are going to talk a little bit more about your story and how you felt about and probably a little bit later we are going to talk about what the ultimate solution is going to be and how you feel about the IRS and how you feel about being current with your taxes right now.

This is the IRS Solution Attorney show we will be back in a moment.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Welcome back to the IRS Solution Attorney show I am THE IRS Solution Attorney.  Typically, but not today joined by my trusty sidekick Katrina Madewell who is stuck in traffic and is gone radio silent on us but today I have a real exciting guest a great friend of mine….

KATRINA MADEWELL:  And I’m actually in the parking lot so I will be with you in a moment but you know I do have a question Darrin and you know if I was in the studio right now which I will be in a second, I would pop in and I would ask John because I know he said in the last segment he had an issue you know a tax problem with the IRS and he was trying to resolve it on his own and I was curious what were some of the things that he tried to do on his own to resolve his tax problem?

DARRIN T. MISH:  Oh his mic’s not on.

JOHN:  That’s a good question Katrina what I did was just bury it and try to make more money, I focused on what I was good at and which was making money and I figured the only way I was going to get out of this solution, out of the problem rather was to make money and to me that was the only solution.  The problem was excess baggage from having the problem was keeping me from being effective from making more money that I needed to pay the, to pay the problem off.

DARRIN T. MISH:  I think that is really typical but it is counter intuitive because as you, you know you are being a typical guy actually you are like I am going to just solve this problem with blunt force, I’m just going to push harder, work harder I can do it and I admire those characteristics a lot I have a lot of those characteristics myself but the problem was as you made more money what were you doing?  You were accruing even more tax debt so it was like I’m going to dig this hole deeper but faster you know so let’s back up and talk about, well how much, well first of all let’s back up all the way even farther at just a few years ago you had a tremendously successful internet business and you were making like $80,000 a month is that about right?

JOHN:  Yeah we went from the year before that I think the year 2010 we made $75,000 and then we started making that every month and I almost had rock star status in the internet marketing community and it kind of went to my head and I kind of spending money like I was a rock star and so it was a very big boom time for us and it was an awesome time and I’m looking forward to doing it again but yeah so the money came in just like all at once like in truckloads and it was awesome.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yeah that sounds like a good time and you were, you were an internet marketing rock star and you still are it’s just right now you just hit some rough spots you know Google did some things that none of us could of predicted but you will get back on top again and it’s you know just a process you know when you are self-employed, you are a small business owner and lots of those are listening to us today, you realize that this life of ours that we’ve chosen it’s a rollercoaster you now, you get to the top you go down fast you get back up to the top and eventually the ride is over hopefully it’s not over to soon.  So how much money did you owe?

JOHN:  I think, I think $140,000, I think when the first tax bill came.  Here’s how out of touch I was, I didn’t start thinking about my taxes until February of the next year because I was like it’s time to get our taxes around and then the CPA asked me well how much have you been paying in the estimated taxes and when he gave me what my tax bill is going to be I literally almost vomited, it was, it was that high of a bill, he goes you are going to need $150,000.

DARRIN T. MISH:  And the problem is people don’t really think about it.  If you have never had this problem is, Ok so you owed the IRS $150,000 or $140,000 whatever it is and if you don’t just have that just sitting in the bank or paid in estimated tax payments, you are going to have to earn that money right?  Well you are going to have to pay tax on the money, the new money that you are earning to pay off the old tax bill so it’s like double so now you have to earn something like 300 grand just to break even.  Now so the thought is like how are you going to do that when you are making, you went from 75 grand well we haven’t got to this part of the story yet but you were making 75 grand a month and now it’s like 75 grand a year well that’s just not going to happen you are not going to find an extra 150-300 grand just lying around.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  But those are the clients you love.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Well yeah absolutely. I mean that’s why…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  They just come in here and say we don’t have any money to pay what do we do.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Exactly that’s why John is here in the studio because he is my people.  We are going to, I won’t give it away but we’re working together and John is  going to be an IRS Train wreck of the week right  now he is on the front end of the story were the IRS Train wreck of the week is the last segment of the show where we talk about people came into the office and their life is just a wreck they, in John’s case 150 grand to the IRS and that might get worse before it gets better frankly cause we have some returns we still have to file but then ultimately  we are probably going to file an Offer in Compromise and he is going to be one of these success stories and he’s going to you know he is going to go off and become a fabulous, smashing success again…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So I’m curious when we get to that place and he is the train wreck of the week can you actually do it with us, like you would actually be on the air and do the train wreck?

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yeah I’m going to go ahead and go out on a limb here and I’m going to make an offer that he will not be able to refuse, I will pay for his plane ticket to come down here and we will do a whole hour show where it’s like an hour long train wreck and we will just talk the process that John went through.  Now I think we are probably a year or two away from that but….

KATRINA MADEWELL:  It baffles me how long it really takes like we say that every time but like when you are in the middle of talking about it, it’s surreal I guess.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Hey man we are going to be living hopefully in a year or two anyhow so it’s, we might as well get rolling on it and get started and get this thing resolved.  I can see it John, I can see this in my mind so clearly the day that I get to tell you that it’s taken care of.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  It’s brave of you really to appear in studio especially being in the middle of the storm because you can’t always see clearly in the middle of the storm.

JOHN:  Yeah I don’t really view it as the middle of the storm because when I handed this issue to Darrin my business changed immediately at that point because that baggage that I was carrying of trying to solve this problem myself was gone, I said good I know Darrin well enough that he is going to take care of this problem, now I can focus on building my business and getting aggressive with my business and having a positive mindset about who I was as a person and I can’t, that’s something that I didn’t have until I gave the problem to Darrin so already I consider the success of hiring Darrin to take care of the problem.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So we talk about every week but I’m assuming in the middle of the storm you are working that train wreck out so now the money that you are making you are paying estimated payments as you go correct?

JOHN:  Well Darrin got us set up on something pretty cool so now I’m on payroll so instead of having all the money just go to my bank account and then having to pay the government I’m getting paid a salary and it’s taking, the money is coming out of my check immediately so that’s, that helped immensely and I think that was the turning point in my mind of the hey I am going to be able to survive this, not only am I going to survive in this time I’m not just going to bide my time and get out of this, wait until my situation is solved and then I can start building my business at that time, I’m going to start rebuilding my business now because I just handed it to Darrin.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Plus you have a budget to work with.

JOHN:  Yeah.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Doesn’t it feel great we’ve talked about this before, doesn’t it feel great to now know like ok I get X amount of money you know paid 2 weeks or a month whatever it is and when that money hits your checking account doesn’t it feel great and you are like yeah I already paid the taxes on this money, this is my money.

JOHN:  Yeah I feel like I can complain about Politicians now I have the right to complain cause I’m paying my taxes.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Before you are like you didn’t feel like you could actually call yourself a tax payer you are like I’m a tax un-payer and I am not happy about how things are going.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  I think once you have that problem you tend to pay the IRS before you pay yourself.  You are like I don’t want get in this hole again.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Oh for sure hopefully that’s what people will do.  I can tell you from experience…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Well those are your repeat clients though.

DARRIN T. MISH:  I can tell you from experience there are some people it takes 2 -3 times to get the message hey you should pay your taxes first and then worry about everything else later but you know I don’t stand in judgement like I’m here to help people and I want you to know John that I appreciate the trust that you placed in me immensely.  You know you are not, this sounds bad, you are not just a client you are my buddy and you know we are going to take care of this.  This is not going to be a problem at all.

JOHN:  No doubt about it.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  I see you treat all your clients like that.

DARRIN T. MISH:  I do, I do, but you know.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  I mean so I want the person listening that if they come in it’s not like this normal attorney client relationship like you really do reach out to them and if you smirk it’s just because you know that you can handle their problem.

DARRIN T. MISH:  You know I try to treat every client like they are my buddy honestly and there’s some people who are really amenable to that and there are some people that will keep you at arm’s length and that’s ok.  I mean I don’t go out for beers and stuff but I take this role of my really seriously and when I took, this sounds really corny but it’s heartfelt, when I took the oath of attorney and I raised my right hand I believe in those things.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  But that was your left hand Darrin so do that again.  I’m just playing.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Ok for those of you who are watching on the radio today I actually lifted my left hand cause it’s the one closest to Katrina, the person who couldn’t get here on time.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  That was me.

DARRIN T. MISH:  But anyway John it’s just really nice to have you here, it’s you know you are from Michigan right?

JOHN:  Yeah.

DARRIN T. MISH:  So describe some of the things that you saw for the first time since you have been here in Tampa for a couple of days.

JOHN:  Well first of all I want to tell you if you are flying me down here I fly first class.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Well Ok we will negotiate that later.

JOHN:  Well we can negotiate now if you want.

PAT:  Hey coming to Florida from Michigan any class is good.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  I was going to say especially the time of year right?

JOHN:  Actually I was just talking to my family it’s been hotter up there then it’s been down here since I left.

DARRIN T. MISH:  See it’s all good this is the perfect climate.

JOHN:  I brought the good weather.

DARRIN T. MISH:  You were telling me you saw a Dolphin off the balcony?

JOHN:  Yeah we did all kinds of cool things, we stayed at, we are staying at the Sail Port suites and it’s right on the water, right on the old Tampa Bay.  We got to see some Dolphins come in and feed, we saw something that was a huge fish up come from the dock, it was 4ft long it was awesome so Tampa is a great place we love it here.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  We have so much to see and do that I don’t think people even know how much there is to do here.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Absolutely I mean we, I moved here originally from California long time ago, over 20 years ago in part because I love the water and I love warm weather and this is the place to be for sure if you are into those kinds of things.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Well you are listening to the IRS Solution Attorney show and in studio today we have John which is one of Darrin’s clients and we are sharing all about his experience working with Darrin during the process.  We will be back after we take a real quick break, stick around if you have a question you can call and we will take it 888-404-1010, 888-404-1010.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Welcome back to the IRS Solution Attorney show I am THE IRS Solution Attorney joined here by finally…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  By the co-host finally in studio Katrina Madewell, that’s me.  I was here though I didn’t leave you even though I joined by phone.

DARRIN T. MISH: Absolutely, I appreciate that.  Recapping today we have a very special guest here in the studio today it’s one of my clients today his name is John.  John’s from Michigan and John has an IRS problem right now and he owes somewhere somewhere I would say between $140,000 and maybe as high as I don’t want to freak him out and make his palms sweaty, it might be as high as 2 or 300,000 we are not really sure yet because we still have some returns that still need to be prepared.  He just grimaced and gave me a dirty look right now…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Penalties and interest.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yeah just remember that bigger cases are easier to settle than smaller cases so when we are at this stage where we kind of got things stabilized and we know we are going to do something so it’s kind of good that you are going to owe more money because ultimately it’s going to be a little easier to resolve.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  And I have a feeling you are in very good hands with Mr. Mish.

JOHN:  Oh I know it.  I feel 100% and as soon like I said once I knew that Darrin was the guy to take care of the problem, that first of all there was a solution to my problem.  Because once the money wasn’t coming back into my bank account like it was before and I wasn’t earning that type of money…I didn’t think there was going to be a solution. But once I got to listen to Darrin’s show and got to work with him I knew that there was a solution and just handing that off to him was just awesome.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  What did you think when you were listening to some of those podcasts, like hearing these stories week after week.

JOHN:  Well I think it was, I knew I was eventually going to have the conversation with him but I was putting it off.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  What the heck do I tell him, how do I tell him, I want to be your client.

DARRIN T. MISH:  I don’t remember exactly, what did I say when you told me?

JOHN:  You were like “You have an IRS problem?”  And I was yeah I do have a slight one and he goes what do you owe?  And I say a 150 grand and you were like oh we need to talk and then you laughed and then you called me a dope or something.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Well cause usually it’s not a slight one, usually they say oh I owe a lot of money and Darrin’s like well how much is a lot of money to you?

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yeah and a lot of money could mean, it could run the range from, some people you know I ask them how much they owe, they say a lot of money and I say how much and they say a 1000 bucks and a 1000 bucks is a lot of money depending on what your….

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Just not to the IRS.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yeah depending on what you were going to spend it on right and then sometimes somebody will say you know its 23 million and then I kind of smile and I go yeah your right that is a lot of money and why haven’t you look at it.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Oh this one is going to be fun yippee.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Those really big cases that get into the multi-millions are really fun because it’s, I don’t have to work real hard convince that you can’t afford to pay 23 million bucks right so in your case I don’t think it’s going to be all that hard to convince them that, now especially since your business is you know not bringing in 75 grand a month gross and that’s kind of an important distinction.  You were grossing like 75 grand a month right?

JOHN:  Right our overhead was 1% and it was just nothing.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Well I can guarantee your overhead was higher than 1% because tax burden alone was probably like 28%.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  He left that part out of the equation Darrin.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Exactly, yeah but you had a silent uncle in that deal that actually wasn’t getting as much.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  He had his hand in your pocket you just didn’t know it.

JOHN:  Yeah.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Your Uncle Sam was like what…

JOHN:  He is making up for it now.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Exactly.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So what were you worried about? What was some of the things that really just kept you up at night cause we hear these stories all the time from Darrin’s perspective and the people that he represents but what really bothered you?  Like what were you like? Oh God I can’t get this out of my head, I can’t shake it, it’s keeping me up.

JOHN:  Well initially it was going to prison, I know people that go to jail, go to prison for this sort of thing and I knew that if I went to prison I wasn’t going to be able to support my family and so I was really worried about that.  Probably for a few months that it was like the kind of worry where, not like you are worrying that your teams going to lose in game 7 of the Stanley cup, it’s the kind of worry that makes you vomit and makes you hyperventilate.  I had several visits to the emergency rooms in that initial 3 months.  Once I realized I had a problem I thought I was having a heart attack but it was just anxiety attacks and it was, it was not a very fun time to be alive for me.

DARRIN T. MISH:  I would say a good man’s biggest fear is that he is going to let his family down and you have a number of children I forget it’s like enough for like a football team.

JOHN:  Yeah not quite, yeah we have 7 kids…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  I thought I had a lot of kids.

JOHN:  We have a grandchild at home to and they are all at home so we have enough to field a football team probably if we played both sides of the ball.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  I guess that’s what they do in Michigan.\

PAT:  Hey going back a second there what is your team for the 7th game in the Stanley Cup?

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Go Lightening.

PAT:  Ok good.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Tonight’s do or die that is what I heard.

DARRIN T. MISH:  He is like ok yeah the Bolts exactly by the way we are not going to lose in a hypothetical 7th game of the Stanley Cup finals that just will not happen so.  Anyway is Detroit still, is Detroit still in the playoffs?

JOHN:  No, our hockey season in Michigan ended a couple of months ago.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Oh gotcha.

PAT:  We just need new officials for this game.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Well but officials if you are listening today…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  You live in Tampa, you live in Tampa right, you live in Tampa.

DARRIN T. MISH:  It’s all good.  So yeah you know so I think that a good man’s biggest fear is letting down his family and I’m sure that is what was going through your mind, it turns out in hindsight needlessly but your worried that you are going to be letting your wife down and your kids and your grandkids and all these people because you are the bread winner for this entire clan right?

JOHN:  Right, we have several family members that work for us as well to so it’s, it was everything I do I do for my family and that’s something that they push me forward to become what I do.  You know how many hours I work, I work several, I work 13-14 hours a day and everything I do is for them so when it got to a point that it looked like I might let them down it just broke my heart, I couldn’t look at my kids the same.  I mean it was just hard.

DARRIN T. MISH:  I’m a guy that really focuses on work life balance, I believe that we work when we work and we should be with our family when we are not working because that is why we are working and I can tell you that I will, I see John online or he will text me or chat me on Facebook, that’s how we communicate for work reasons and he will send me messages at 11:00 at night.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  I’m up.

DARRIN T. MISH:  You know working on my stuff and I’m like John dude you need to chill out you need to go like have some fun.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  I know like for me I always have so much stuff to do that by the end of the day it still keeps me up because there are always things that I didn’t finish and it drives me nuts.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Surrounded by type A people here in the studio today and everyone would think it would be the lawyer who would be the type A guy but apparently not.  John is so into his family that actually he has a family member here in the studio today who is silent, she doesn’t, we didn’t give her a mic because she didn’t feel like she wanted to be on air… but I mean this is a dedicated family guy and I can see how having a tax problem and making a financial mistake could really be trying for people. But the good news is, I don’t think I have ever had a tax problem that could not be solved.  You know there is always a solution. Now there are people unlike John who won’t take the steps that need or won’t do the things that need to be done to solve a problem. When I made the suggestion to John that he go on a payroll service and that he just put himself on a salary and just have taxes withheld because that is really going to help us in our future negotiations with the IRS we are going to be able to tell them look he gets it now…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  That’s a good point.

DARRIN T. MISH:  He’s paying his taxes and it’s all good but you wouldn’t believe how many people I make that suggestion to and they just look at me like you are crazy man, I am not doing that, there is no way I’m doing that. But I made that suggestion to John I don’t think there was any hesitation he’s like really I could do that and it’s that cheap ok it’s done, consider it done.

JOHN:  Yeah well giving my problem to you I had to do what you suggest and every suggestion you’ve made is helped my business, has helped my frame of mind so why wouldn’t I do what you.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  I was listening to what you said to about a couple of trips to the emergency room and that kind of stuff and just thinking about the medical expenses alone especially for a self-employed person, that’s way less than what you are going to pay an attorney like Darrin to handle the problem.

JOHN:  Yeah and the good part is I got a good stress test, I had 3 stress tests taken care of and I had all the blood work done so I am healthy.

DARRIN T. MISH:  The stress test I just loved those I mean they about kill you on the tread mill and then oh you didn’t die you are good.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  He’s still kicking.  Wants to have a little more.  Well should we answer a couple of questions that we got on Twitter?

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yeah that sounds great.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Ok so let’s see Rick here wants to know is there a certain amount of money that the IRS lets me keep a month if they garnish my paychecks?  Good question Rick thanks.

DARRIN T. MISH:  There is a certain amount of money and it’s a ridiculously low amount of money, I think it’s publication 1494 I’m not totally clear on that but I think it’s publication 1494.  There’s like a table that you get for wage levies, remember wage levies are continuous, meaning they don’t stop.  Once the wage levy is put in place and it stays in place until either the balance is paid or somehow we can somehow beg and plead with the IRS to release the wage garnishment and sometimes they won’t do it.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Which is different when they swoop your bank account or freeze it.

PAT:  Is it true that they take your wages, your bank account anything you get and they will even go after your social security check?

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yeah they actually can go after Social Security retirement checks, they just in the last few years have come up with a policy that they are going to benevolently not take Social Security Disability checks that’s really nice of them don’t you think, I mean they are not going to take your Social Security Disability check but typically Social Security Retirement checks are levied initially at a rate of 15% and then they can go to 30% and just in the last few years they decided they could go to the entire Social Security Retirement checks so that is sort of interesting.  When it happens there is just things to do to get into compliance.  The typical problem when you cannot get a levy released or a wage levy released is the person is not considered current, current means they have missing tax returns, the withholding is incorrect for some reason, they are not making estimated tax payments if they are self-employed that kind of thing.  It can put some people into almost non-winnable situations so they are not current.  Let’s say they have 3 years’ worth of tax returns to file and the IRS is levying their wages and Social Security to such an extent that they don’t have enough money to pay to get their tax returns prepared and now they are just in this catch 22 where somebody like me calls and speaks to a revenue officer for example and we say hey how about you let the wage levy go so we could get these missing tax returns filed and sometimes they say No, I don’t want to do it, I don’t have to do it and then there is other things that we have to do, more complicated things that we have to do to try to get the wage levy released.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  But it would make sense to me that if they are visiting somebody like you they are clearly planning to take action to fix whatever that issue is and get back into the system as they say.

DARRIN T. MISH:  One would hope that would be the inference from that but there are some IRS employees that don’t share in that attitude and that is why honestly when I try to work with local IRS employees and really all of them I try to make it as less confrontational as I possibly can because this doesn’t have to be adversarial it’s one of the things that’s attractive to the job it’s not.  You know like when litigation Attorney’s go at it they are just relentless, they are just terrible to each other, they are not courteous, they are rude and it’s really a kind of practice that is not attractive to me.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Then they go let’s have a beer when it’s all done.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yeah well my experience says I don’t want to have a beer with anybody that I have ever engaged in litigation with because I don’t like them after it’s over but….

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Somebody is going to lose.

DARRIN T. MISH:  So with the IRS sometimes I can draw back on the relationships that I have developed over many years with these folks, they know that I am a straight shooter if I say I’m going to do something I’m going to do it unless I can’t and will get the case resolved that way.  Right now there are some newer revenue officers in town and it would be awesome if they were listening but we haven’t developed that relationship yet so we are kind of having to go through the growing pains for a little bit so they said I’m going to do this and I have to say well ok then I’m going to do that and then we are going to get to the resolution eventually.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  And you can reach Darrin @darrin_mish on Twitter.

DARRIN T. MISH:  And at my website getirshelp.com that’s getirshelp.com or toll free 888-438-6474, 888-get-mish.  The number again is 888-438-6474.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  You are listening to the IRS Solution Attorney show we have had a great time today in studio today with John.  We will be back after this next break.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Welcome back to the IRS Solution Attorney.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Pat loves to do that I’m your co-host Katrina  Madewell.  I saw you pop the mics on in red like I wasn’t paying attention.

DARRIN T. MISH:  I was actually in mid-sentence and I saw that and said ok we’re back.  So…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Thank you for listening, we have had a great show today.  We actually had John which is one of Darrin’s clients share his experience and his story that they are actually still in the middle of.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yeah he is very bravely coming down here, flew down to Florida and came into the studio and I did not pay for this trip down to Florida, he paid for that on his own dime but the promise is that if, when his problem is solved he is going to get a trip down to Florida whether or not it involves a first class air fare I’m not really sure…

JOHN:  I guarantee you it will.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Pat pretty much nailed that on the head though you know.  You book into Southwest; $25.00 early bird he can get like A1.

PAT:  You know my wife is leaving for Boston in the morning and someone booked her a flight and it is taking off the wheels up at 5am.\

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Yeah I’ve been on some of those.

PAT:  What?

DARRIN T. MISH:  I’ve been on those…

PAT:  What kind of person goes to the airport at 3:00 in the morning.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  The good news is going through security is a breeze because there is nobody there.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Well you cannot get there 2 hours early because the TSA guys don’t get there until about 4:30 I think.  They do not get there all that early.

PAT:  So you are telling me I don’t have to get there tomorrow at 3?

DARRIN T. MISH:  No, no if you got there at 4 you will be fine.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  No.  Not for a 5 am flight.

PAT:  Ok that was my plan.

DARRIN T. MISH:  That was going to be your plan anyhow is to get there at 4.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Yeah.

PAT:  They keep scaring you saying 2 hours early.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So breeze right through.  Not at that hour.

PAT:  See I learn so much on this show thankfully.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  It’s kind of like a domino effect like once it’s start you can’t get that time back but it’s starts out on time so you breeze right through.

PAT:  Ok very good.  I can get up at kind of a normal hour.

DARRIN T. MISH:  See here on the IRS Solution Attorney show we talk about all kinds of things, we talk about traffic, we talk about air fare schedule or airlines schedule, all kinds of things.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  But we do have a story in the headlines that we want to chat about and that’s 5 scammers arrested in the IRS Impersonation Scheme.

DARRIN T. MISH:  This is really a cool story because I don’t know, there is probably people out in the listening audience that have had this experience, I’ve certainly had it where you get this phone call that is usually a voicemail at the house or sometimes at the business where there is a guy with an Indian or east you know east Asian accent that says he is from the IRS and that they are going to file a lawsuit and they are going to arrest you and all this stuff is going to happen and it turns out….

KATRINA MADEWELL:  The IRS is outsourcing now.  Lovely.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Well I don’t know about that but typically talk on those calls actually the first time that it ever happened my wife heard the voicemail and she called me immediately and she was freaked out and she told me about it and I just kind of laughed good-naturedly at her I said that’s a scam that’s somebody that is trying to fish for information.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  You should have saved the message so we could play it on the air, that would of been awesome.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Ok I’ll do that.  If I run into I’ll do that because it happens to my clients a lot well this…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  If you have it call into the studio because we would love to get the audio, 888-404-1010 give Pat your number and we will call you back, get the audio, 888-404-1010.  I know somebody has gotten this call on their voicemail.

DARRIN T. MISH:  So this news story is really good news.  TIGTA which is the treasury inspector general, I don’t know something like that.  Anyways the treasury department investigators have actually popped 5 people for running these IRS scams where they, they fleeced nearly 2 million dollars from over 1500 victims as part of a scheme where they impersonated IRS agents and kind of the scam kind of like this, typically you owe us a bunch of money but if you give us, like you owe us 100 grand but if you give us 15 grand today you won’t be arrested and things like that.  Actually I have a client right now who somehow was convinced to give this guy $30,000 worth of ITunes gift cards.  I mean that is like head smacking it’s like the Treasury is taking ITunes gift cards.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  I can’t believe somebody fell for that.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yeah it’s unbelievable, and I’m not making fun of her it’s just like…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  It’s off, it’s just a little off.

DARRIN T. MISH:  It’s a little bit off.  But anyway surprisingly they caught these guys down in Miami, that’s not surprising at all.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  I was going to ask you if it was like out of the country or somewhere here but of course Miami.  Little bit of both out of the country and here.

DARRIN T. MISH:  So they caught these guys down in Miami and it looks like they are going to go to prison for quite a while.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Did they catch them from like the IP address or whatever there….

DARRIN T. MISH:  Doesn’t say the news story doesn’t say but the criminal complaint was filed in Minnesota which I think is pretty funny because these guys from Miami are going to have to go up to the frozen north and deal with their criminal problems up there and who knows where the Federal Bureau of prison is going to send them eventually.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  And it’s about that time isn’t it Pat?  Oh yes he is back there asleep on the job, heckling me for being late.

DARRIN T. MISH:  This is the segment of the show called the IRS Train wreck of the week.  Typically, we have a nice train wreck noise but our producer Pat George has just been like, he is exhausted from traffic reports today so he couldn’t come up with the noise but…

DARRIN T. MISH:  Oh you know better late than never.  So anyway today’s train wreck of the week is really great it’s about a client of mine, he has been a client for quite some time and he owed the IRS about $155,000 and change and he’s actually a firefighter in Tampa and he does a little bit of real estate investing on the side and so he came to me and we got him all caught up and filed and what not and we filed what is called an Offer in Compromise and an Offer in Compromise is where you make a deal to settle for less and it based on some relatively simple math that I won’t go into right now.  We offered with this case $1240.00 for a $155,000 liability because that is how the math worked out and that would have been an absolutely screaming deal I mean that is like, something like 1% or little bit less than 1% well that offer took about, well because he is self-employed it ended up taking at least a year before the IRS worked on it.  The IRS called us and had some questions.  We had to have, this client actually had to file a 2015 tax return and low and behold he experienced a phenomenon that John is experiencing right now, once he gave the case to me he started feeling better and he started performing better and his self-employed gig….

KATRINA MADEWELL:  I want to know how a firefighter is self-employed and owes money.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Well because the firefighter is going to work shifts that are something like 15 days a month because they are like 24 hour shifts so he has a bunch of time left over where he can do real estate and what not.  So once he kind of had that monkey off his back he started making more money.  So long story short we had to increase the offer amount and it ended up that it’s been recommended for acceptance at this point in time and it looks like it’s going to settle for $15,540 which is still right around 10% and….

KATRINA MADEWELL:  At $150 something thousand?

DARRIN T. MISH:  And I was telling him you know if you had come into my office and I had told you hey we could settle this for 10 cents on the dollar you would have hugged my neck and given me a big fat kiss and we would have been real happy.  So hopefully he is real happy with that outcome I think it’s a fantastic out come and he is going to be able to put this behind him once and for all.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  I love it when you share stories like that.  Any closing thoughts there, John, on your show, on your story?

JOHN:  No I just think it was great watching you guys in action, I listen to every episode and I really do and just great seeing you guys work and actually putting some visual to what you guys do so it was great being here.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  What’s one piece of advice can you could give the person that listening that is in your position, owing a ton of money just need to take that step, just don’t know where to start what’s the one thing.

JOHN:  There’s always a solution available to your problems and just because you can’t come up with a solution yourself because you are type A doesn’t mean that solution doesn’t exist.  Reach out to a tax attorney that you trust and let them take the problem and solve it for you.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Leave it up to the specialist.  You’re listening to the IRS Solution Attorney show we have been so great having you this week every episode is available on a podcast.  We will be here same time same place next week and you can get Mr. Darrin Mish @darrin_mish. Also 888-getirshelp for this week we’re out.  Did I get that right? We will post it online.

DARRIN T. MISH:  888-get-mish, getirshelp.com we’re out.

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