I hear from people every week who think their tax problem is the end of the world. It usually isn't. I'm Darrin Mish. I've resolved over $100 million in tax debt for clients. Here's what you should know.<\/p>\n
Scott Ferrall: All right, my guest tonight \u2013 let’s go ahead and get to that, Let me go ahead and give the formal introduction for my guest Normally, we always kid attorneys, especially my buddies. We kid He was also nominated "Practioner of the Year" in 2002, by the I hear from people every week who think their tax problem is the end of the world. It usually isn't. I'm Darrin Mish. I've resolved over $100 million in tax debt for clients. Here's what you should know. Scott Ferrall: All right, my guest tonight \u2013 let’s go ahead and get to that, because I’ve […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"rop_custom_images_group":[],"rop_custom_messages_group":[],"rop_publish_now":"initial","rop_publish_now_accounts":[],"rop_publish_now_history":[],"rop_publish_now_status":"pending","footnotes":""},"categories":[4],"tags":[595,144,596,126],"class_list":["post-17307","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-irs-help","tag-irs-installment-agreements","tag-irs-levy","tag-irs-wage-garnishment-library","tag-offer-in-compromise"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/getirshelp.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/17307","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/getirshelp.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/getirshelp.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/getirshelp.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/getirshelp.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=17307"}],"version-history":[{"count":2,"href":"https:\/\/getirshelp.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/17307\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":21681,"href":"https:\/\/getirshelp.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/17307\/revisions\/21681"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/getirshelp.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=17307"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/getirshelp.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=17307"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/getirshelp.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=17307"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}
\nbecause I’ve got some folks who have got a lot of questions and
\nthey want them answered, concerning the IRS, what you can do, and
\nif you are I guess in the holding with the IRS, and you have done
\nsomething that you have got to get handled.\u00a0Click here to read or watch more IRS Help resources.<\/a><\/p>\n
\ntonight. My guest tonight is Darrin Mish. Darrin is a graduate of
\nGolden State University. The cool thing is he has been rated by the
\nfolks in his field as achieving the highest levels of professional
\nskills, and integrity.<\/p>\n
\nattorneys about the word 'integrity' in attorney of a lawyer being
\nhooked into the same sentence. He's the real deal. He is a friend
\nof mine. I've gotten a chance to spend some time with him out in
\nLA.<\/p>\n
\nAmerican Society of IRS Problem Solvers. He is the real deal. I
\nhave the top expert, the top IRS attorney on my show tonight.
\nI am going to go ahead and give you a chance to get a pen or a
\npencil, get ready to take some notes. Also, if you have got any
\nquestions tonight, you can ask him.
\nDarrin, are you on the line?
\nDarrin Mish: Yeah, I am Scott. How are you?
\nScott: Did I give you enough introduction here, or do I need to go back
\nand say more really nice things about you?
\nDarrin: [laughs] No, no. no. That's fine. I am actually blushing right now.
\nIf we were on a different show or a slightly different topic, we
\ncould go on and on about that political stuff all night. That would
\nbe a whole lot of fun. I would really like to give my opinions
\nabout that, but let me tell you a couple of things that I do know
\nabout the new Healthcare Bill. Don't let me get too far off on this
\ntangent, because we want to take some calls. We want to help some
\npeople tonight.
\nHere is the deal. As much as this Healthcare Bill is going to help
\nmy business, I mean our business has already exploded once
\nPresident Barack Obama was elected, but now the IRS and this new
\nHealthcare Bill, the IRS is going to be hiring somewhere between
\n16,500-18,000 new tax collectors.
\nYou might ask, "Well, why do they need so many tax collectors?"
\nIncidentally, that is going to cost $10 billion. A billion with a
\n"B." It is going to cost that much to hire that many tax
\ncollectors. Why do they need so many new tax collectors? They need
\nthem, because every single month, the IRS is going to check us
\nindividually and corporately to make sure that we have approved
\nhealth insurance.
\nSo, if we think the IRS problems are bad now, and that the IRS has
\ntoo much control, and too much insight into our private lives, boy,
\nwe haven't seen nothing yet!
\nScott: I know we haven't. I was about ready to throw a chair through the
\nTV last night when I saw the vote go through.
\nDarrin: Well, all we can do is what you said, and vote with a conscious in
\nNovember, and see what we can do about getting some of this stuff
\nrepealed.
\nScott: If you don't, the end of the Republic is here. I mean listen to
\nthis folks, Darrin just said it, $10 billion. I mean, right now, we
\nare flat broke. Medicaid when broke last week \u2013 actually, it was
\nSocial Security. Social Security is broke.
\nNow, we are borrowing money from the Chinese, a government that is
\nnot very friendly to the United States. So, everything that we are
\ndoing from here on out, we are borrowing to do. The debt ceiling
\nright now is $12.7 trillion. Our debt payment per year is $958
\nbillion. We only collected a little over $1 trillion in taxes last
\nyear. That is frightening!
\nDarrin: Well, Scott, I am actually doing my part to make sure that they
\ncollect a little less than a trillion this year. [laughs]
\nScott: Oh, yeah. All right, well tonight's guest is Darrin Mish. Darrin's
\noffice is in Tampa. Let me go ahead and give you his website,
\ngetirshelp.com\/blog\/, a very easy website. Let me give you his phone
\nnumber, 888-438-6474.
\nAll right, Darrin, I gave you that glowing introduction. Now,
\nGolden State University, that is in San Francisco, correct?
\nDarrin: It is actually Golden Gate University, like the bridge.
\nScott: Oh, Golden Gate. I was thinking Golden State Warriors, sorry.
\nDarrin: That is all right.
\nScott: I am a basketball running through here. Now, are you originally
\nfrom San Francisco?
\nDarrin: I am originally from Southern California. After I got done
\ngraduating at UC Santa Barbara \u2013 who incidentally was in the NCAA
\nTournament, but lost sadly to Ohio State, I moved up to the Bay
\nArea to go to school at Golden Gate University. Then after
\ngraduation in 1993, I made my way out to sunny Tampa, Florida. I
\nhad enough of that fog and cold, wet weather out there in San
\nFrancisco.
\nScott: I bet. See, I have never been there. I have always been to Southern
\nCalifornia. I love Southern California, could live there, but there
\nis too many people per square foot, but I had to stay in the South
\nof the United States.
\nDarrin: Famous quote by Mark Twain, "The coldest winter he ever spent was a
\nsummer in San Francisco." It is very cold there in the summertime.
\nScott: [laughs] That is really nice.
\nAll right, folks. You do have the top expert in the business on the
\nphone tonight. He is one of the top tax attorneys in the United<\/a>
\nStates. He is also part of America’s Premier Experts. The only way
\nyou can get into that group, I, myself am in that group for about
\neight years, is to be an expert in your field.
\nNow, Darrin, you and I met in LA. What hits me is I have so many
\nfriends that ask about top IRS attorneys, or attorneys period, that
\ncan help with the IRS. What made you decide to get into this
\nparticular type of law practice?
\nDarrin: It is a really interesting story. I actually worked for the
\ngovernment, not the IRS, but I was actually a public defender for a
\ncouple of years out of law school. After that couple of years, I
\nwent out into private practice on my own, practicing Criminal
\nDefense.
\nIt is interesting, in law school, they never teach you a darn thing
\nabout actually running a business. I have heard the same thing
\nabout dental school, and medical school, and whatnot, but we didn’t
\nlearn anything about business whatsoever.
\nSo, I go off on my own, and I start my own business. I think I know
\neverything, because I am a young man, and I am an attorney. So, lo
\nand behold a couple of years in, I find myself with a tax problem.
\nWhen I go searching for help for my tax problem, because I don’t
\nknow exactly what to do, I can’t find any help in my local area.
\nSo, this is interesting, and this is kind of a hard thing to admit,
\nbut I was actually engaged at the time or I might have been
\nmarried. I am not sure, but it was fairly recent or new in our \u2013 we
\nhadn’t been married very long, if we were married. I finally
\nadmitted to my wife that I owed the IRS some money. It was not a
\nlot of money in the overall scheme of things. It was less than
\n$10,000, but it was something that I was keeping from her, because
\nI was really ashamed of it.
\nI didn’t know what to do, and there was some of that machismo
\nwrapped in there too, like “I should know how to deal with this.”
\nIt was funny, once I admitted it to her, we sat down and we talked
\nabout it. We ended up facing the problem, and we ended up working
\nit out with the IRS.
\nSo, after I got that experience of handling my own problem, it
\noccurred to me that there were lots and lots of folks just like me
\nout there that probably had tax problems. So, I went on a search, I
\nwent on a quest, and I found a mentor who helped teach me
\neverything that I needed to know about handling tax problems.
\nI really dove in head first. I learned so much that within two
\nyears of being mentored by this gentleman, I actually was then
\nhired by him to teach other attorneys, CPAs, and enrolled agents
\naround the country, how to handle tax problems.
\nSo, that is actually how I really wound up getting into this niche
\nis I actually had my own tax problem.
\nScott: How did your wife handle the truth?
\nDarrin: It is funny. They say, “The truth shall set you free,” right? She
\nwas very kind. She was very understanding, and that has been the
\ncase in almost every other case, where I have run into similar
\ncircumstances. It is very common for one spouse to be withholding
\nthat information from their spouse, and they will typically come in
\nand speak to me. I always counsel them to go ahead and tell the
\ntruth, because that anxiety that they have built up is almost
\nalways worse than their spouse’s reaction.
\nScott: Oh, yeah. Now, I was reading your website today. You have a very
\ninteresting story about a man that was in a coma. Could you tell
\nthat story? I mean, I want the listeners to hear this story.
\nFolks, this is an amazing story of what Darrin was able to do for
\nthis individual. Also, it is amazing of how ruthless the IRS can
\nreally be with an individual. Give us a quick overview of this.
\nDarrin: OK. Here is a quick overview. This gentleman was a contractor. He
\nwas actually a handyman, and he owed the IRS. He had not filed for
\nmany years. I mean, that is not uncommon by the way for there to be
\nnon-filers. Something like 10 percent of the population has not
\nfiled tax returns. Incidentally, once you do that for one year,
\nthen the next year comes before you know it, and then the next
\nyear, and then the next year. So, commonly people come in, and they
\nhaven’t filed a tax return in about 10 years.
\nSo, this gentleman was in that situation. We ended up filing tax
\nreturns, or preparing tax returns for him, and then filing them. By
\nthe time those were all done, and penalties and interest, and
\neverything was added, he owed somewhere between $80,000-$100,000.
\nHe was earning as a handyman something like $30,000-$40,000 a year.
\nNow, I don’t know anywhere in this country where that is a lot of
\nmoney. So, we ended up filing what is known as an “Offer in
\nCompromise.” An Offer in Compromise is where you can make a deal<\/a>
\nwith the IRS to settle for less. It is a program setup by Congress,
\nso that people can get a fresh start and get on with their lives.
\nSo, Congress has set up this deal, because they understand the
\npresent value of money. So, money today for sure is much better
\nthan "We might get more money in the future." So, we filed this
\nOffer in Compromise<\/a> for this gentleman, and it was pending for
\nquite a long time.
\nIn the past, it was not uncommon for Offers and Compromise to be
\npending for like two years before they were either accepted or
\nrejected. The IRS also treats most offers like an insurance company
\ntreats a claim. It is kind of funny that this analogy comes up
\ntoday, of all days. Most insurance companies deny claims right off
\nthe bat, because some very large percentage of people will just go
\naway, and the IRS does that with Offers and Compromise as well.
\nSo, they initially rejected his offer, and we offered \u2013 I don't
\nknow. I can't remember exactly how much, but something like around
\n$5000. It was initially rejected, and then we filed an appeal.
\nWhile the appeal was pending for six months or so, my client
\nactually contained this very rare infection. He was cleaning up
\nsome disgusting house, like a foreclosure kind of deal, and he got
\ncut right through his boot. The bacteria that was in the house
\nended up getting into his bloodstream, and put him in a coma. He
\nwas actually in the hospital for quite some time.
\nSo, what happened is we went ahead with the appeal, and I was able
\nto secure a settlement with the IRS to settle his case for $3000-
\n$4000, something like that. The problem was the gentleman was in a
\ncoma, so he couldn't sign the paperwork. So, I had to just stall,
\nand do everything I could to keep the case open long enough, hoping
\nthat he would awaken from his coma. A long story short, he did. He
\nwas able to sign. We literally had him sign the day he woke up or
\nthe day after, and his offer went through. He paid the IRS. The
\ncase was settled, and he lived happily ever after.
\nScott: Now, did commonsense ever enter and say, "Hey. The dude is in a
\ncoma. Why don't we put this on hold until the guy wakes up?"
\nDarrin: Well, it is a beaurocracy, and it would not have been hard at all
\nfor us to convince the IRS to place him in what is known as
\n"Currently Not Collectible<\/a> Status." That status means that the IRS
\nagrees that he has no present ability to make any payments.
\nHowever, I knew this gentleman. I had been working with him for
\nsomething like three years. I knew that when he awoke, that status
\nCurrently Not Collectible, would not be a win in his eyes. So, I
\ndid whatever I could moving heaven and earth, to make sure that we
\nkept that thing open long enough so that he could sign. Again, it
\nworked out.
\nScott: True success story, folks. Again, let me give you Darrin's website
\nand his phone number. His website is getirshelp.com\/blog\/, and I am going
\nto give you his toll free number: 888-438-6474.
\nMy guest tonight is Darrin Mish. Darrin is one of the top \u2013 what do
\nyou call yourself Darrin, tax attorney, IRS problem maker?
\nDarrin: [laughs] I am definitely not an IRS problem maker. I would say tax
\nattorney.
\nScott: All right, now Darrin you have got a book coming out. We're in a
\nbook together, "The Power of Principles for Success." What was your
\nchapter in that book, and what can the listeners look for when they
\npurchase it?
\nDarrin: My chapter was actually about goal setting, and it was about goal
\nsetting in a professional sense and a business sense. In the
\ncontext that we're talking about here, I think that there is a
\nprinciple that applies as well, and that is for most taxpayers, it
\ntook many years to get themselves into the situation where they
\nhave to come and see me.
\nSo, to expect that you are going to make one phone call or do
\nsomething really easy and this is all going to go away, is probably
\nnot a realistic thing. So, you need to set goals along the way to
\nmake sure that the outcome that you desire comes out. So, for
\nexample, make a goal today to visit the website, or make a goal
\ntoday to call someone like me to get some help, and then set an
\nappointment and then attend the appointment, or make the phone
\nappointment, whatever it is.
\nWhen we, for example, ask you for financial documentation so that
\nwe can help solve your case, set a goal to actually meet the
\ndeadline. Now, it sounds really simplistic, but I mean it is that
\nsimple, in that we need in our lives to be able to set goals, and
\nthen accomplish them if we ever hope to have the outcomes that we
\nexpect, and that we deserve.
\nSo, that is really what my chapter in that particular book is all
\nabout.
\nScott: Oh, yeah. I mean, my chapter in the book is "See the Finish Line."
\nUnless you can see the finish line, you are never going to do
\nanything. I always teach people to see the finish line, and work
\nbackwards to get to the finish line. It is so funny, because people
\nwill avoid things. They won't talk about the elephant in the room,
\nand they think it is just going to go away. Folks, the IRS is not
\ngoing to go away. The government has plenty of money. They have
\nplenty of time and money to destroy your lives.
\nDarrin: It is your money. [laughs]
\nScott: And it is your money paying to destroy your own life!
\nNow, I have got a whole series of questions for Darrin to answer
\nfor me tonight. So, go ahead and get your paper and pencil. Write
\nthese down if you have got any issues with the IRS. Make sure you
\nplace a call or go to Darrin's website, and see how he can help
\nyou. Again, that website getirshelp.com\/blog\/.
\nAll right, Darrin. Let me go ahead and start with the questions
\ntonight. I have got several sitting in front of me, and I want to
\nget answered. All right, here is the first one; can the IRS really
\ntake a persons home, bank account and paycheck?
\nDarrin: OK. Everybody wants to hear about, "Can the IRS really take my
\nhome?" In my state, in Florida, we have something called the
\n"Homestead Exemption." It is a state law, and what it says is that
\nmost predators cannot touch your home if you have declared it your
\nhomestead, where you live, your family's home.
\nIn Florida, we always have people come in and say, "The IRS can't
\ntake my home, because of homestead." Wrong. There is something
\ncalled the "Supremacy Clause" in the Constitution that says that,
\n"Federal Law supersedes State Law." That is actually one of the
\nthings that we are going to be dealing with in the Healthcare
\ndebate, but the IRS can actually take your home.
\nNow, in the vast majority of cases the IRS doesn't want your home,
\nespecially given today's economic climate. There is a very good
\nchance that your home is worth a lot less than the amount of tax
\nthat you owe. It is reserved for rather extreme circumstances.
\nI don't want to go too far into this, but there is a certain group
\nof people that have constitutional objections to the tax code. They
\nwill file hundreds and thousands of pages worth of documents,
\nraising arguments that have been declared null and void to the
\ncourts. Those types of folks usually get singled out for special
\nattention by the IRS, and most of the home seizures that I have
\nseen during my career have been of people who have actually gone
\ndown that road. So, homes can be seized.
\nNow, bank accounts and paychecks are a whole lot easier. Let's talk
\nabout the bank account. If the IRS issues a notice, what is called<\/a>
\na “Final Notice of Intent to Levy,” and then 45 days goes by and
\nthe taxpayer does not appeal, then the IRS can issue what is known
\nas a “Bank Levy.” What that means is they send a notice to the
\nbank, and they are entitled to everything in your bank account, up
\nand including how much your total liability is.
\nSo, in other words, you could have just gotten paid and your
\nmortgage money is in there, your utility money is in your bank
\naccount, and the IRS issues a levy. They suck it all out of there,
\nand the odds of getting it back are not real good. You do have 21
\ndays after this levy has occurred to fight it out with the bank and
\nthe IRS, and typically you are only going to have real good success
\nif you can argue that they levied the wrong person. So, Bank Levies
\nare really bad. We don’t like Bank Levies to happen, because they
\nare really hard to undue.
\nThe Bank Levy is a one time levy. It doesn’t mean that they can’t
\ndo it more than once, but it means that it is not continuous. So,
\nit is kind of like, they’ll do one now, and they might do one in
\nsix months, but it is not a continuous levy.
\nNow, a Wage Garnishment is a little big different.<\/a> A Wage Levy is when
\nthey issue a levy notice to your employer. A Wage Levy is
\ncontinuous, which means your wages will continued to be garnished
\nuntil the full amount of the liability is paid off.
\nNow, there is actually a schedule that tells your employer how much
\nof your paycheck that you get to get, that you get to keep if you
\nhave a wage garnishment, but a nice rule of thumb is you get to
\nkeep a whopping 15 percent of your paycheck. So, wage garnishments
\nare really bad as well.
\nScott: Well, when Barack Obama gets through with his tax hike, that might
\nbe the only thing we have left. It's not really going to matter.
\nDarrin: [laughs] Well, we have represented a number of people over the
\nyears that are actually what we call 'levy proof.' I mean, they
\nmake so little money, that there is nothing for the IRS to get even
\nif they do garnish, but that is not a happy place to be.
\nScott: Well, no. All right, now next question \u2013 everybody get that at
\nhome. If bad things happen, what is the best thing that an
\nindividual can do?
\nDarrin: Well, at the risk of sounding self-serving, I would say call
\nsomeone like us to help you, because if you call the IRS \u2013 think
\nabout it. Have you ever heard that clich\u00c3\u0192\u00c2\u00a9, "Hi. I am from the
\ngovernment, and I am here to help"? That is kind of what happens.
\nScott: [laughs]
\nDarrin: You call the IRS, they've just garnished your bank account or your
\npaycheck, and you're just calling 'uncle.' They usually play nice
\non that first call, and they kind of just lead you down the garden
\npath, but remember that the IRS employees work for the Federal
\nGovernment. That is their job is to collect money from you.
\nWhereas, a tax attorney such as myself, my job is to protect the
\ntaxpayers interest and being able to get for them. So, I would say
\nthe best thing to do is not to call the IRS. That is probably the
\nworse thing to do, but call and get some help from someone like us.
\nNow, if that's economically not possible or feasible, then you
\nmight want to visit our website getirshelp.com\/blog\/. The truth is there
\nis a couple of hundred videos on our website, and the answer to
\nvirtually any question you can imagine is contained there on the
\nwebsite. I actually tell people, believe it or not, how to solve
\ntheir own problems, but the vast majority of people aren't
\ninterested. They would rather have someone, who has been there,
\ndone that a 100 times or a 1000 times, instead of trying to do it
\nthemselves.
\nScott: Man! You are like the Calvary. I mean, everybody gets so stressed
\nout about the IRS, and we'll see the biggest stress come in about
\nthree weeks. I've got a non-profit. I have called the IRS five
\ntimes, and have gotten five separate answers on what I was supposed
\nto do with my non-profit. It is kind of frightening, because the
\ngovernment \u2013 you can't complain, and they're never wrong. So, it is
\nalways your fault.
\nDarrin: I have a funny story about that. One time, I filed an extension for
\nmy own personal return. This has been several years ago. I got a
\nnasty gram around April the 20th or 25th saying, "We didn't get
\nyour extension on time. You owe us $500 penalty." So, despite
\nknowing better, I called the IRS and I complained, and I said, "No.
\nI sent it in on time." The lady said, "Well, if you don't have that
\nlittle green certified thing, then it was late, and we win and you
\nlose." I said, "As a matter of fact, I do have that little
\ncertified receipt. Where would you like me to send it?"
\nSo, the moral of the story is if you are going to file an
\nextension, have some way to track it so they can't say that it was
\nlate.
\nScott: I only send my tax returns either FedEx and get them signed, or get
\nthe little green slip. [sneeze] Sorry, folks. I still got this
\nsinus infection. I am trying not to cough on the air tonight.
\nI think we have a call Darrin. Let me go ahead and see. I am
\nrunning my own switchboard now. I do not have a producer, so it
\ntakes me awhile to get \u2026 Caller? Do we have a caller on the line?
\nAnn: Yes.
\nScott: OK. What would be your question for Darrin tonight?
\nAnn: Hey, Darrin. I am really glad to hear your show, and it is great to
\nknow that there are people like you out there to help us little
\nguys out.
\nMy question is, I became an independent contractor last year, and
\njust kind of stumbling and bumbling my way through life. I wasn't
\nreally prepared to put aside taxes and things like that properly,
\nand now I am going to be filing a tax return for 2009. What is my
\nbest strategy? Do I need somebody like you to go ahead and kind of
\ncorrect me to file my taxes? What is the best thing for me to do?
\nDarrin: I am really glad that you asked that question. What is your name by
\nthe way?
\nAnn: Ann.
\nDarrin: Hi, Ann. I am really glad that you asked that question, and it
\ndepends. I have a two part answer for you, and one part is going to
\nbe a little bit educational. The first answer is \u2013 of course, I am
\na lawyer, I am going to say it depends. It depends on how much
\nmoney you are going to ultimately owe. I would suggest that if you
\nare going to owe $25,000 or less, you're probably not going to need
\na tax pro like me. You're probably going to be able to call the IRS
\nyourself, despite the fact that I just told you not to, and setup what is called an “Installment Agreement,” which is nothing more than a payment plan<\/a>.
\nNow, here is the rule of thumb. If the taxpayer owes $25,000 or
\nless, and has not had an Installment Agreement<\/a> in the prior five
\nyears, then if you make an offer that would full pay the liability
\nover 60 months, then you're going to get an Installment Agreement
\nalmost automatically.
\nNow, I understand that might have been difficult to understand, so
\nI am going to give you a hypothetical. If you owe $25,000, if you
\noffered about $500 a month, that would full pay within 60 months,
\nand the IRS would most likely just rubberstamp that and say, "OK."
\nSo, it is going to depend on how much you owe, and how much you can
\nafford to pay. Now, if you find that you prepare the return and you
\nowe more than you can afford to pay, that is really just our
\nbaseline sort of category is \u2013 if you owe more than you can afford
\nto pay, then, of course, it is going to make sense to go ahead and
\ncall someone like us.
\nNow, I wanted to say something else about people in your situation,
\nbecause it is super common, where you are an independent contractor
\nfor the first time, and you are not sure what you are supposed to
\ndo. So, I am going to go ahead and tell you what my wife made me
\ndo, going back to that tax problem that I had, and that is you have
\nto make estimated tax payments. You use Form 1040ES, and you have
\nto make those quarterly. You have to pay those four times a year.
\nSo, what I do is every time I pay myself, I withhold somewhere
\nbetween 20 percent and 30 percent, and I set it aside in a
\nsegregated account for the estimated tax payments.
\nSo, again here is an example. If I write myself a check for $1000
\nout of my corporate account, I am going to set aside somewhere
\nbetween $200-$300, put it in this special account. Right before the
\ndue date of each one of those deadlines, I am going to take all the
\nmoney in there, and I am going to send it off to the government.
\nNow, it is also important to note that you don't have to pay only
\non the deadlines. You don't have to pay every three months. You can
\npay every week or every month. If you are the type of person that
\nhas trouble saving money because there is always some new emergency
\nthat comes up, then by all means, send it in more frequently.
\nBecause it is one of those situations where like if you own a house
\nand you don't pay your mortgage, they come and take your house. It
\nis very similar with the IRS. If you don't make your estimated tax
\npayments, eventually really bad things can happen.
\nAnn: Well, thanks very much for the answer. I appreciate the
\ninformation.
\nDarrin: Thanks for the question, Ann. I appreciate it.
\nScott: Any more questions?
\nAnn: No. That's it. Thank you.
\nScott: All right. Well, thanks for the call tonight. Darrin, thanks for
\nthe answer. All right, take care. Bye-bye.
\nThat was actually a good question, wasn't it?
\nDarrin: Yeah. I love that question.
\nScott: A lot of people probably have that question. It is like, "What do I
\ndo?" and then they panic.
\nDarrin: Right. [laughs]
\nScott: Now, I have got my next question. Now, here is the deal. I have
\nheard of some people go for years without filing taxes. Now, that
\nis one thing. What do they do if they have no records to go along
\nwith the filing of the taxes?
\nDarrin: Well, there is a couple of things that we can do. We can actually
\nfile what is called a "Freedom of Information Act Request" with the
\ngovernment, and we can obtain their transcripts from the IRS going
\nback, usually about seven years. So, we can get the W2s, the 1099s,
\nthe 1098s and so on, from the government itself.
\nThe statute of limitations for the crime of failure to file a tax
\nreturn is six years. So, typically, we will go ahead and have a non
\n-filer file the last 6-7 years, so that we can avoid the criminal
\naspect. That is the way that we get the records from the
\ngovernment.
\nNow, if that is not good enough, like let's say that they were
\noperating a business as well, and they had business expenses. They
\ncan make what is known as a "Good Faith Estimate" of what their
\nexpenses were. There has to be a declaration if that is the case,
\nbut 'knock on wood,' I have never had a problem where we have filed
\nback tax returns, where we made good faith estimates of the
\nexpenses.
\nThat being said, these are not the most aggressive tax returns in
\nthe world when we file those, because typically the taxpayer is
\ngoing to owe more than they can afford to pay. That takes us out of
\nthe examination division of the IRS, where they are really worried
\nabout, "How much do you owe?" and puts this right into the
\ncollection division of the IRS, where all they care about is
\ncollecting the money.
\nSo, again typically, a rule of thumb is if the taxpayer owes more
\nthan they can afford to pay, there is almost always something that
\nwe can do to help them out.
\nScott: That is a blessing, folks. Did you hear that? There is almost
\nalways something that he can do.
\nLet me go ahead and give you Darrin's website again if you are just
\ntuning in with us. My guest tonight is Darrin Mish. Darrin is the
\nproblem solver if you have IRS issues. His website is
\ngetirshelp.com\/blog\/, number 888-438-6474.
\nNow, that brings me up to my next question. Will the IRS forgive
\npenalties and interest?
\nDarrin: Well, that is a good question. The penalties can be forgiven for
\nwhat is known as "Reasonable Cause." When you think about, "Well,
\nwhat does reasonable cause mean?" It means a darn good reason. Now,
\ntypically, people will say to me, "Well, I didn't have the money.
\nIsn't that a good enough reason?" No. That is not a good enough
\nreason.
\nLet me give you some examples of good enough reasons \u2013 bizarrely
\nenough \u2013 drug abuse, alcohol addiction, mental health, severe
\nemotional disorders, divorce, death in the family, natural
\ndisasters. Those are all examples of reasonable cause.
\nTypically, you can get at least one year's penalty excused if you
\nhave reasonable cause. It becomes harder and harder once those
\nyears cascade and start to add up. In other words, if you have
\nseven years of non-filing, it is going to be pretty hard to
\nconvince the IRS that there is reasonable cause for the non-filing
\nof all seven years. However, there have been cases where we have
\nprevailed as far as that goes.
\nNow, let's talk about the interest. Interest is not usually
\nabatable, which means reducible, unless we can demonstrate that the
\ntaxpayer relied upon written erroneous advice from the IRS. Now,
\nyou had mentioned before you called the IRS five times and you get
\nfive different answers. That is not written advice. That is oral
\nadvice, and you cannot rely upon that to get interest waved. You
\ncan only rely upon erroneous written advice. Well, to obtain
\nwritten advice from the IRS is pretty hard.
\nSo, the rule of thumb is interest cannot be eliminated. However,
\nthe interest that is associated with penalties that are reduced
\ndoes go away as well, if the penalties do. The rule of thumb on
\npenalties and interest for a late filed return is if you owed $5000
\non a return with penalties and interest, it is probably going to
\ndouble. It is probably going to be about $10,000.
\nScott: Isn't it great? You couldn't afford to pay it the first time, and
\nthen they double it for you. With the wonderful United States
\nGovernment, the way we have now, they're still going to make you
\npay it or put you in jail. It's great.
\nDarrin: Well, I'll be honest. I've been doing this for a long time through
\na number of administrations, and I haven't seen a whole heck of a
\nlot of difference in collection or examination from the IRS.
\nI'm famous for saying the Republicans will lower your taxes and
\nwill do everything they can do to collect every penny, and
\nDemocrats will raise your taxes and they are not as aggressive.
\nRight now, it doesn't seem like there is going to be any slackening
\nof collection efforts at all, and if anything collection has
\nactually ramped up in the last several years.
\nScott: That just drives me crazy. OK. Next question. When a business gets
\nin trouble, I understand that even employees can be held liable for
\nunpaid taxes. Is that a true statement?
\nDarrin: Well, it is possible, and let me explain this rather complicated
\nscenario. If you have a corporation, and most of our corporations
\nthat we represent are single member corporations, that individual
\ncan be held liable for about 65 percent of the total payroll tax
\nliability personally.
\nSo, let's say I am the president of my corporation. I don't pay
\n$100,000 worth of payroll taxes. Ultimately, rough rule of thumb is
\nabout $65,000 of that is going to flow through to me personally,
\nand the IRS is going to what to come call for my personal assets.
\nA lot of people think, "Oh. I set up a corporation. That
\ncorporation protects me from liability from a variety of factors.
\nIt is going to protect me from the government." No. Not
\nnecessarily, because we have this principle in trying to the law.
\nNow, there are cases where employees can also be held liable,
\nbecause the standard for liability in this sort of scenario is; was
\nit willful? Was it knowing and willful?
\nSo, you can have a situation where a bookkeeper or a treasurer, or
\nlike a paper director or a paper officer on a corporation who knew
\nthat the payroll taxes were not being paid, can actually be held
\nliable for this 65 percent of the payroll taxes. There has even
\nbeen cases where bankers and accountants have been held personally
\nliable for that trust fund portion of the payroll tax.
\nSo, it is really crucially important, I want people to understand
\nthis. You don't want to be an officer of the corporation or a
\ndirector of the corporation, that you don't have day-to-day control
\nover. Just for that reason, I have corporations other then my law
\nfirm, and my wife is not on any of the corporations. You might
\nthink, "Oh, that's because you are worried if you get a divorce or
\nsomething, then can't take you to the cleaners." No. It is actually
\nthe opposite. It is in case we run into some kind of snag and we
\ncan't make payroll, it is only me that is going down, it is not
\ngoing to take her down too.
\nYou wouldn't believe how many husbands and wives, where it is the
\nhusband's or the wife's business, but they put their spouse on
\nthere as a 49 percent owner and vice president just to be nice, and
\njust to show them that they loved them, and then lo and behold a
\npayroll tax problem comes along, and they are both held jointly and
\nseparately liable. So, that is a disaster.
\nScott: Rule of thumb folks, if you want your husband or wife to know it,
\njust tell them you love them, leave them off the legal documents.
\nHow is that? Does that work?
\nDarrin: [laughs] Yeah. That really does work. It sounds strange, but it is
\none of these situations where we have seen this time and time
\nagain. So, we don't want to see spouses who aren't intricately
\ninvolved in the business on the paperwork.
\nScott: Just in case you have just tuned in, my guest tonight is Darrin
\nMish, website: getirshelp.com\/blog\/, phone number: 888-438-6474.
\nNext question. You talked early about submitting financials to IRS.
\nCan you tell me more about what you mean by 'allowable' expenses?
\nDarrin: Sure. Remember when I talked about submitting that Offer in
\nCompromise, and making an offer to settle for less with the IRS.
\nThe amount of that offer is calculated using allowable expenses as
\ndrawn up by the IRS \u2013 and let me explain a little bit better.
\nWe have to fill out what is called a "Collection Information
\nStatement, " and we declare all of the income. Then we go through
\nsome tables that the IRS has put forth, that talk about what kind
\nof expenses are allowable.
\nSo, if you were going to submit an Offer in Compromise, and you
\nsaid you made $10,000 a month, but you had $9500 a month in
\nexpenses because your mortgage is $7000. Well, wouldn't that be
\ngreat? It would be really easy to get an Offer in Compromise
\nthrough. For example, there is a max amount of housing and
\nutilities for every single county in the United States.
\nSo, here in Hillsboro County, Florida, I haven't looked at the
\nstandards yet. They just came out this month for this year, but I
\nwant to say the max housing allowance for a family of two,
\nincluding your mortgage, your utilities, your real estate taxes,
\nyour insurances, everything is about $1300 or $1400.
\nSo, there is really an art to filling out the Collection
\nInformation Statement, so that we can show and demonstrate to the
\nIRS that you have very little ability to pay. Now, we're not saying
\nthat we're going to do anything illegal, unethical, or immoral in
\nhelping you fill these out. We are going to make sure that they are
\nfilled out truthfully and correctly, so that you get to take
\nadvantage of every single dollar, and every single expense.
\nNow, there are some expenses where there are maximums like housing
\nand utilities, like I said. There is a maximum for what are known
\nas 'national' standards, which is like food, clothing, and other
\nmiscellaneous expenses. There some maximum allowances for your car
\npayment and your other transportation expenses, but then there are
\nsome expense categories that are unlimited such as healthcare \u2013
\nagain, comes back to that.
\nI actually had clients who were spending $10,000-$15,000 a month on
\nhealthcare, because they had terminal diseases. They would get
\nthose expenses allowed by the IRS, because we could demonstrate
\nthat we were actually spending that.
\nSo, that is what I am talking about when it comes to allowable
\nexpenses, and it is actually a little bit of a puzzle to put those
\nthings together. We have quite a bit of information on the website
\nthat talk about how to fill those out, and then there is also a lot
\nof information on the IRS's website about how to get your allowable
\nexpenses, and whatnot.
\nBut, your typical Collection Information Statement that we get
\nback, that last page with the income and the expenses typically
\ncomes back to us blank, because it is so intimidating and it is so
\nscary to people when they first see it.
\nScott: Right. I have spent a lot of money on healthcare every month,
\nbecause I do everything naturally. I never use my health insurance,
\nbut everything I do \u2013 I am the guy who beat bipolar disorder. I did
\nit naturally with the help of a medical doctor of course, but most
\nof my doctors don't take insurance. So, I always have quite a price
\ntag on the healthcare.
\nAll right. Next question; what does having a federal tax lien<\/a>
\nreally mean?
\nDarrin: A federal tax lien is notice to the world that you owe the IRS
\nmoney. In most states they will file it in the Clerk of a Circuit
\nCourts Office, or in some states it is call the Recorders Office,
\nor in some states it is the Office of Deeds or Land Records.
\nBasically, it is notice to the world that you have this tax
\nproblem, and you owe this money to the IRS.
\nNow, interestingly most people think that the federal tax lien only
\nattaches to their real property. They think that it only attaches
\nto their house, but in fact the law indicates that it attaches to
\nall of your property, real and personal, wherever it is. So,
\ntechnically that means that it attaches to your socks in your sock
\ndrawer. Now, the IRS doesn't want the socks in your sock drawer,
\nbut it attaches to every single thing that you own.
\nSo, it is a good idea to avoid a federal tax lien if you can, and
\nit really puts a thumbprint on your credit report.
\nScott: I can imagine. Thank goodness I have never had one of those. Don't
\nplan on getting one.
\nAll right. Next question. If the IRS comes to your house, what
\nshould a person do? That is not a day that I would want to have
\nhappen.
\nDarrin: Well, there is a couple of different kinds of IRS officers. We're
\ngoing to talk real briefly about the really bad kind. These IRS
\nRevenue Agents, or actually Special Agents tend to travel in pairs,
\nand they have gold badges, and they carry guns. Those guys mean you
\nhave a criminal problem, or you are about to have a criminal
\nproblem. My best advice is shut your mouth. You are going to get
\narrested anyway. Do not talk to them. Indicate that you will not
\nspeak to them without the presence of an attorney. That is pretty
\nrare.
\nNow, the other type of IRS employee that is likely to come to your
\nhouse far more common is that of a Revenue Officer. A Revenue
\nOfficer is actually a collections officer for the IRS. They don't
\ncarry guns, and are not authorized to carry guns. They are not law
\nenforcement officers, and they carry a little plastic badge that
\nhas their \u2013 it is just like an ID. It has their picture on it.
\nNow, the Revenue Officers job is to make nice with you, secure
\nentrance to your home with permission if possible, or your business
\nif possible, so that they can eyeball the type of stuff that you
\nhave got, so that they can get a better idea of what your ability
\nto pay is going to be.
\nSo, my advice is, if a Revenue Officer comes to your home is to say
\n\u2013 just keep them on the front porch, remember they don't have the
\nright to forced entry into your home, and you say something like,
\n"Oh. I am so glad you are here. I have been wanting to deal with
\nthis for a very long time. I will have my lawyer call you," and
\nthat would be the end of the conversation.
\nYou don't have to be as formal and as stiff to say, "I am not going
\nto talk to you, without my lawyer present, " but you should say
\nsomething like that. "Hey. I have secured somebody to help me with
\nthis, and I want you to go ahead and speak with them instead of
\nme."
\nThe reason is the IRS Revenue Officer is going to make real nice
\nwith you. They are going to tell you, "I am from the government,
\nand I am here to help." They are going to secure as much damming
\ninformation as they possibly can from you, so that they can really
\nscrew you over, [laughs] for lack of a better term.
\nScott: I live by a needle board, and Needle has got that on his website,
\n"Don't ever listen to\u2026 I am from the government, I am here to
\nhelp." That's our government. It creates problems, so they can
\nsolve them.
\nAll right. My guest tonight is Darrin Mish. If you need to go to
\nhis website it is getirshelp.com\/blog\/. His number: 888-438-6474.
\nNext question. I am curious about what happens if a person has no
\nmoney and no way to pay the IRS. What will happen to them?
\nDarrin: Well, that is one of those dichotomies. I mean that is actually a
\ngood situation, where you owe more than you can afford to pay, and
\nyou have no ability to pay them back. A bad situation is you feel
\nlike you owe them more than you can afford to pay, but you have
\nlots of stuff that you can liquidate and pay them back \u2013 if that
\nmakes sense.
\nSo, the person who has no money or very little ability to pay is
\nreally actually in pretty good shape. We should have talked about
\nthis way back when, when we first started the interview, but there
\nis basically five ways to solve an IRS problem.
\nNow, we talked with Ann real briefly, and we talked about an
\ninstallment agreement, that is a payment plan. But, if this person
\nhas no money and no ability to pay, then that is not going to be a
\nlikely scenario for them.
\nThe next thing is something called an "Offer in Compromise." That
\nis where we talked about with the gentleman that was in the coma.
\nAn Offer in Compromise is where you can make a deal to settle for
\nless. It is based upon your ability to pay. So, someone with very
\nlittle money and very little ability to pay is most likely a pretty
\ngood Offer in Compromise candidate.
\nThe third option we talked about real briefly was "Currently Not
\nCollectible Status." Now, the neat thing about Currently Not
\nCollectible Status is the IRS will typically place the taxpayer in
\nthat status for a year or two at a time.
\nNow, that leads me to the fourth solution that we didn't talk
\nabout, and this is really juicy, Scott, did you know that there's a
\ncollections, there's a statute of limitations for the collections
\nof tax, and what that means in English is, the IRS only has so many
\nyears to get the money! That happens to be 10 years from the date
\nof the assessment of the tax.
\nSo, if you were, if you had say a 2002 tax liability, and we're now
\nin 2010, and we were able to put you in Currently Not Collectible
\nStatus, that means that at the end of two years or so, the IRS will
\nno longer be able to collect that money, because of the statute of
\nlimitations. So, there's a scenario where someone with very little
\nmoney and very little ability to pay, could actually be in really
\ngood shape.
\nThe last solution is something that is really rare, a lot of people
\ndon't know this, including about 90 percent of bankruptcy lawyers
\nand that is that taxes, income taxes in certain circumstances, can
\nbe discharged in personal bankruptcy. Unbelievable, isn't it!
\nScott: Yeah.
\nDarrin: There's actually three rules and I'm going to go over them real
\nfast, and I don't really expect anybody to understand, but in a
\nnutshell, the tax returns have to have been due for at least three
\nyears. If those tax returns were filed late, they have to have been
\nfiled for at least two years, and the taxes have to have been
\nassessed for at least 240 days. So, what that means is, that you
\nneed a tax pro like myself to make those calculations.
\nSo, what we typically do in that scenario is, we obtain the records
\nunder the Freedom of Information Act request, and I know which
\ndates matter, we put that into some fancy software, and it will
\nspit out the dates that you can actually file bankruptcy and
\nactually have your taxes discharged.
\nNow, there's lots of variables, and there's lots of exceptions, but
\nthere's another example of how someone with very little money, and
\nvery little ability to pay; we just went over about four different
\noptions that might be open to that person.
\nScott: You know it's funny, because I interviewed, when I was doing a lot
\nof radio here in L.A., I interviewed a tax attorney, he came on my
\nshow one day, he was actually doing debts and stuff, he never,
\never, said anything about this, and I asked him, and of all things,
\nhe never mentioned that number five on the list, or number four, as
\nfar as statute of limitations.
\nDarrin: [chuckle] You know there are secrets in this business, and a lot of
\nguys in this industry like to think that they can keep those things
\nsecret from the public. Now, I'm the opposite, there's no way that
\nI could actually handle every case in the United States. So I want
\nto get this information out, so that people can stop suffering.
\nScott: Oh yes.
\nDarrin: Because that's really what the name of the game is, is that most
\npeople with tax problems are suffering mentally and emotionally,
\ntheir relationships are suffering, they're having anxiety problems,
\nand it just never goes away.
\nScott: No, and since I have to do a lot of suicide counseling, not
\ncounseling because I'm not a counselor, but coaching or just
\nhandholding basically, and hugging, some of the suicides come from
\njust the stress of what the government has done to this individual.
\nI know one guy in North Carolina, his wife pleaded for six years to
\nget this case heard, they said he owed $100,000, he really didn't
\nknow anything but nobody would listen. He eventually killed himself
\nand two months later the IRS forgave the debt.
\nDarrin: Yeah, so the moral of that story is, it's never as bad as you
\nactually\u2026
\nScott: No.
\nDarrin: \u2026 think it is.
\nScott: No, and I wish I could have talked to the individual because it
\ncomes back to any behavior, take the emotion out of it, look at the
\nvariables, there's always a way to solve a problem. If you can
\n[inaudible 0:47:09] just talk to them.
\nAnd that leads me up to my next question, you just answered one
\nabout the government. All right. Since I know you've dealt with
\nthousands of individuals in the past, which I'm sure you have,
\nwhat's the best advice a person dealing with the IRS, and want to
\nreduce the stress and sleepless nights they're experiencing, what
\ncan they do? You know they call you. Take me from there. What can
\nthey do?
\nDarrin: Well, they just need to recharge and get some help from somebody
\nwho has been there and been through this situation hundreds if not
\nthousands of time. I have seen virtually everything that can go
\nwrong in a tax case and clients, for the most part, have all come
\nout far better than they came in.
\nSo, that's the number one thing is get some help. Again, if you
\ndon't feel like you can afford help or it's not feasible or you are
\nnot ready, then go out onto the Internet and do some searching and
\nget educated. Because education in this niche is really going to
\nset you free. You are going to understand what the IRS can and
\ncan't do. That should reduce your anxiety some.
\nBut, the best thing to do is just be proactive and deal with the
\nsituation. The situation is never as bad as you think it is. Let me
\ntell you a short story. I know we are running out of time.
\nI had a gentlemen come in to my office one time and he sat down. He
\nthought he owed $80,000.
\nI asked him, "Why do you think you owe $80,000? Do you have a bill
\nfrom the government?"
\nHe said, "No. I haven't filed, as a matter of fact, but I just know
\nI am going to owe $80,000."
\n"Why do you think that?"
\n"Well, I am self employed and haven't filed for five years."
\n"OK. Well, do you have books and records?"
\n"Yes, I do."
\nLong story short, this guy had been putting this off for five
\nyears. He was trembling when he came into my office. Long story
\nshort, we prepared and filed the returns. He owed $5000.
\nI am not saying that's going to happen in every case, but that's a
\nreal life true case. This guy suffered for five years under this
\nmisperception that he owed $80,000.
\nScott: So just be proactive. It saves a lot of stress. You are either on
\noffense or defense. I was a former basketball coach. I like being
\non offense more. That means I am scoring.
\nDarrin: [laughs] Yeah, absolutely, and you have more control.
\nScott: That's right. Let me get back to Ann. Ann is new in her business.
\nRight now what should she do? Go ahead and do the 1040EZ and get
\ngoing and paying her taxes.
\nDarrin: Because she is self-employed she cannot do a 1040EZ. She has to do
\nthe 1040 long form with what's called Schedule C like Charlie and a
\nSchedule SE like self-employment.
\nNow, actually, we do prepare returns here, so you can give us a
\ncall and we can help you prepare the return, but that's really what
\nyou need to do is use the form 1040, the Schedule C and the
\nSchedule SE. Then once she has a better idea of what she is going
\nto owe, then that's going to dictate what her next step is.
\nScott: OK, all right. Folks let me give you Darrin's website one more
\ntime. We got about two minutes left in this show. It is
\ngetirshelp.com\/blog\/. His number is 888-438-6474.
\nIf could say one thing \u2013 we got about 30 seconds before I got to
\nlet you go.
\nWhat would you tell people right now, somebody that is at home
\nhiding under their mattress afraid of the future and what the IRS
\ncan do, what would you tell them?
\nDarrin: There is definitely hope. There's all these programs. We talked
\nabout five different possible solutions in this one hypothetical
\ncase. There are actually many more possible solutions that we
\ndidn't have time to talk about. You just need to be proactive and
\nyou need to go out and seek some help.
\nScott: All right, folks, don't forget Darrin is also in the book "Power
\nPrinciples for Success." That book will be out in July. I am also
\nin that one. I wrote a chapter on "Always see the finish line."
\nDarrin is a friend of mine. I respect him. I just don't have
\nbuddies on my show. Let me make sure you understand this. I only
\nhave the experts on my show.
\nNow, Darrin, I have got one more question I forgot to ask and this
\nalways comes up to me when people talk to me. Can you help people
\nin other states outside of Florida?
\nDarrin: As a matter of fact we can. We represent clients in all 30 states
\nand on every continent except for Antarctica. We are still working
\non that one.
\nScott I wanted to tell you too, I have two more books that are
\ngoing to be coming out before the end of this summer. One's title
\nis "The IRS Battle Guide" and that will literally take you step by
\nstep through just about any IRS problem you could possibly have and
\nthe other one is entitled "Insider Secrets to Solving IRS
\nProblems." Those should both be available on Amazon.com, say around
\nJuly.
\nScott: Cool! Man, I can't wait to read those. I am sure he is going to
\nsend me a signed copy folks.
\n[laughter]
\nScott: Actually, I've got to send you copies of mine.
\nDarrin, thank you so much for being on the show tonight. This has
\nbeen one of the best shows I have ever done because it's probably
\none of the most useful shows I have ever had. Thank you so much and
\ndon't worry I am going to have you back in probably three or four
\nmonths.
\nDarrin: Fantastic, Scott. I really appreciate it. I had lot of fun.
\nScott: All right, take care.
\nDarrin: All right. Bye-bye.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"