All About Passports And How Your’s Can Be Frozen If You’ve Got Tax Debt

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DARRIN T. MISH:  Good morning, this is the IRS Solution Attorney show I am the IRS Solution Attorney Darrin T. Mish.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  This is your co-host Katrina Madewell. That voice is getting a little bit better there, you are kicking that cold to the curb Darrin?

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yeah, a couple of weeks ago, we had that guest on, and the guest was really great. And the great thing about having the guest at least for me was I didn’t have to talk too much because I was busy hacking in the background.

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KATRINA MADEWELL:  I know we can catch some of that in the microphone even though it was muted but…

DARRIN T. MISH:  There might be a little bit of coughing today but I will try to remember to push the cough button. Because you know I don’t like to be driving around and hearing some radio guy just like hacking into the microphone it’s just not a pleasant sound.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Today’s show is actually fun like, often times when Darrin and I get here. I have no idea what we are going to talk about, I have no idea what the show is going to be about and I have no idea what’s on the outline. As a matter of fact, Darrin just emailed it to me about 2 minutes before we hopped onto the air here but it’s a really fun topic.

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DARRIN T. MISH:  Today’s show is all about a recent development in the law where the IRS. If you owe significant tax debt to the IRS. So, $50,000 or more the IRS can actually revoke your passport and prevent you from traveling Internationally. Now, if that wasn’t bad enough, there’s 5 states who’s driver licenses don’t have, they don’t meet some Federal compliance standard.

So, TSA will not let citizens of those 5 states to have those 5 states driver licenses fly domestically. So, they have to have a passport in order to fly domestically and so if you live in one of those 5 states, in Florida here’s a big spoiler alert. Florida is not one of those states but if you live in one of those 5 states you can’t even travel domestically.

PAT GEORGE:  How come you didn’t tell us this sooner?

KATRINA MADEWELL:  What states?

DARRIN T. MISH:  Well, what happened is a law passed in 2015. And then it takes a long time sometimes for regulations to promulgate and for them to figure out how they are going to enforce the law. And I didn’t say anything about it before because we didn’t even know if they were going to enforce it. Occasionally something controversial like this will pass and Congress won’t enforce it.

For example, without getting too political. The funding for Trump’s wall along the southern border was actually passed over 10 years ago. And they just didn’t bother to do anything about it.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  I was going to say, oh, here we go, but that changes the dynamics your next sentence there.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yeah, I’m not criticizing anybody in that, I’m going to remain neutral as far as that goes. I’m just, it’s just an example of where Congress passed a law and nobody ever tried to enforce the law. So, imagine this. Imagine you were an International business traveler, you worked for a software company or something and you go to Eastern Europe quite a bit. And maybe three or four times a year because you need to meet with your development team and you owe maybe a $100,000 in tax to the IRS. And you haven’t dealt with it and you go down to the airport and you are about to get on your International flight to the Ukraine for wherever.

And you are trying to go through, you are at the ticket desk there and they go, sorry, we just ran your passport and it’s been revoked for IRS tax purposes.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  I just I’m in shock. I didn’t even know that. Did we talk about that before on the show? I don’t remember?

DARRIN T. MISH:  I don’t think we have ever spoken about it and it’s just a horror story.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So, literally that is how it goes down like they are there, they got their ticket all purchased, they are ready to go somewhere like even to another state.

DARRIN T. MISH:  As far as we know that is how it is going to go down.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So, this is new?

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yeah, this is brand new. Actually, it’s actually gone into effect just in the last few days.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Oh my gosh…

DARRIN T. MISH:  In the last week or so and think about this…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  We should have somebody from TSA in the studio to talk about this because they’ve had some training before the last two days.

DARRIN T. MISH:  I’m sure they are just riveting to listen to. But anyway, the five states that have the non-compliant driver’s licenses are Illinois, Minnesota, Missouri, New Mexico and Washington. Here in Florida there’s probably not all that many people from New Mexico and Washington because they are so far away.

But we know for sure that there are people listening to us right now on the radio live. That they are from Illinois, Minnesota and Missouri that are snow birds. That are just down here for the winter. So, if they have significant…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So, theoretically speaking they might not be able to fly home is that what you are saying?  That is what I am hearing.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yes if they don’t have, they have a non-compliant driver’s license so they can’t travel on that. And if their passport is eventually revoked by the state department because of IRS tax debt then they are not going to be able to fly home. They are literally going to have to drive home or take a bus, I guess there are still trains, right?

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Yeah, people take the train not a lot but they do, it’s actually kind of cool.

DARRIN T. MISH:  I think it’s only a couple of hundred dollars from coast to coast on the train, the problem is it takes like three days.

PAT GEORGE:  So, let me ask you this, my wife, ex-wife is in Dallas but she lives in Chicago and she’s not going to go back home until March 1st. So, do I need to call her and tell her anything that she might be stuck?

DARRIN T. MISH:  Well, I don’t know if I should ask this but does she have a significant tax problem?

PAT GEORGE:  Oh no…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  If she has an IRS debt.

PAT GEORGE:  Oh, so, you’ve got to have that problem.

DARRIN T. MISH:  You’ve got to have the significant tax problem.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  She might, you might not know about it, Pat.

PAT GEORGE:  Oh I would know about it trust me.

DARRIN T. MISH:  For all the folks who don’t have a tax problem who are listening it doesn’t matter you are fine. Your passports not going to be revoked.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  What if it’s a snafu, we were talking what is it 2 weeks ago about the guy with the stolen filed tax returns. I guess that doesn’t apply for that right or do they think that’s going to happen.

DARRIN T. MISH:  I guarantee, I absolutely, positively guarantee that there will be snafu’s. There will be passports that will be revoked erroneously. And I guarantee you within a doubt, here’s a guess 18 months, I will start to have train wreck stories about how we unraveled that and we got it all fixed. Because every time there is a program like this, you know implemented by the Federal Government.

Every single time there’s problems like bureaucratic snarls and problems like that. The interesting thing is that now you’ve got two Federal agencies involved. You’ve got the IRS, which is Treasury, and then you’ve got the State Department, who issues and revokes passports. So, those two agencies are going to have to talk to each other. Which I think is going to be fascinating cause they are not going to talk to each other well.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  They already don’t talk.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yeah, absolutely. I mean even Social Security and Internal Revenue service don’t talk to each other particularly well. And they are very closely related if you think about it. So this is going to be pretty interesting I think.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So, why aren’t we hearing more about this on the mainstream media?

DARRIN T. MISH:  Well, because you kind of have to be a tax geek you know or you have to be a CNN junkie or something.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  That’s kind of a big deal.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yeah, I think it’s a big deal, you know the law passed actually on December 4th, 2015. It was called the Fixing Americas Surface Transportation Act or the FAST act. Now you have to love the Orwellian way that the Federal, you know the law makers name their things. The Fixing Americas Surface Transportation Act, yeah let’s throw a place in there where you get your passport revoked if you have a tax debt. Funny thing is there is probably members of Congress who are going to have their passports revoked. Because there are probably members of Congress who have significant tax debt.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Now that is funny. I’m just thinking about this…

DARRIN T. MISH:  They are probably exempt, you know they probably exempted themselves it is probably deep in the regulation or something.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  They are exempt from everything deep in the regulations somewhere.

DARRIN T. MISH:  We know they are exempt from Obama care but anyway. The law also gave the state department the power to revoke your passport if you are a delinquent taxpayer. So, what does delinquent taxpayer mean in this context? Well it means that you owe more than $50,000 in tax debt and that you haven’t. You have a tax lien filed. And you haven’t either entered into an offer in compromise, have one pending, or you haven’t entered into an installment agreement.

So, a lot of my clients when they come into the office they just have unresolved tax debt that’s just been sitting out there for sometimes 6-8 years. It’s just been sitting around they haven’t done anything proactive to deal with it. They owe every single year more and more and more and a lot of times the IRS doesn’t have the manpower to work all those cases.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So how effective do you think this is going to be like how accurate do you think it will be if someone has a tax problem?  They’ve got this flight booked, maybe they are in one of these states, maybe they are not or they are taking. They are going to Mexico for vacation, whatever it is how accurate do you think it’s going to be that they will actually catch their passport hold, what is the percentage do you think?

DARRIN T. MISH:  I think I could do with a laptop you know once you have a good database I think, I don’t think it’s going to be that hard. The problem the government screws up so much at what they do. The one thing as I’m looking at Pat who likes to go on cruises the one thing that I am thinking about is ok forget about the International traveler who is going to the Ukraine what about the guy getting on the cruise ship here in Tampa and he just wants to go to Cozumel, Grand Caymen and wherever for the weekend…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  The deal with cruises like Tampa, I cruise a lot, I know Pat likes to cruise. You don’t need your passport if you are leaving from a domestic port like Tampa. And you come back to Tampa you don’t need your passport.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Because all you need is your driver’s license that shows…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  And a birth certificate or another form, yeah.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Ok, that’s true.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Now if you like for example a year or year and a half ago Chris and I took that cruise where we left from Ft. Canaveral and we ended up in San Juan you absolutely need a passport for that and it doesn’t have to be San Juan it could be like Texas you would still need a passport because you hit an International…

DARRIN T. MISH:  You started in the country you left the country and you came back to a different part.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Well you went, it’s a different port of call, right?

PAT GEORGE:  I’ll tell another story when we come back from the break that a lot of people aren’t aware of when you go on a cruise. What else happens if you are gone for 5-7 days. I will tell you something else that we found out that happens on cruises?

KATRINA MADEWELL:  I’m trying to think if I remember what he is talking about?  Alright we are not going to hijack your show but we will talk cruises a little bit because you brought it up Darrin so you know…

PAT GEORGE:  And we can talk about the Florida state fair today…

DARRIN T. MISH:  It’s all good.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Is it today?

PAT GEORGE:  Started today.

DARRIN T. MISH:  I drove by there this morning there is all kinds of, midways all up and everything is ready to go.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  I would say I’m slow but I just think I am busy.

PAT GEORGE:  Deep fried wedding cake.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  It’s always something deep fried. You are listening to the IRS Solution Attorney show we are glad you are here this morning thanks for listening we are going to have some fun. When we come back after the break. Back in just a moment.

(commercial break)

DARRIN T. MISH:  Welcome back to the IRS Solution Attorney show. I am the IRS Solution Attorney Darrin T. Mish.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  I’m your co-host Katrina Madewell. Thanks for sticking with us through the break. And today’s show is all about Passports and how yours can be frozen if you’ve got some tax debt. I don’t know if you have heard the first part of the show.

DARRIN T. MISH: We are talking about how if you owe significant tax debt to the IRS, which they define as $50,000 or more. They can actually revoke your passport and prevent you from traveling Internationally. And then there’s the other side effect if you live in one of 5 different states you can’t fly on your driver’s license from that state. So, you have to have a passport and if it’s revoked by the state department for the failure to pay income tax you won’t be able to fly domestically either.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  And this is fresh this is like brand new data as of the last few days.

PAT GEORGE:  Something else that they do.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So we were talking about cruises so what are you talking about Pat?

PAT GEORGE:  They take the manifest on a cruise and they check the names, the addresses, the social security numbers. And if you are wanted, you need to do anything. They’ve been looking for you when you come back into port they knock on the door and it’s the law.

DARRIN T. MISH:  I actually have a funny story…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So, so…

PAT GEORGE:  It happened twice I’ve seen it happen.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So if you are wanted you get to go on your cruise but when you come back…

PAT GEORGE:  Oh yeah, they let you go but they check everything. Cause you know there is 3000 people on a boat. And of those 3000 there could be one or two people that have been wanted, or they are trying to get out of town for 7 days till things cool off. So, they check the manifest. It’s funny in the mornings, you know at 7 o’clock when the ship gets in you will see. You always watch and if you see them come on the boat you just watch the hallways they knock on doors.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  See it would be my ideal, I would totally get a condo right there on channel side to watch the ships come in. And when I’m retired and not working, like that would be my idea of entertainment. Because if you have ever been on a cruise, Pat and I know, you know what I am talking about. We do this, no lie and it’s not mean, it’s just funny because people are so dumb. They get so drunk and they get just lost in these ports. And it never fails, maybe not the first day but usually the second day, second port of call, you will see somebody running up to the boat that has missed the boat.

PAT GEORGE:  What’s wrong with that?

KATRINA MADEWELL:  They are not waiting for you.

PAT GEORGE:  What is wrong with that.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  It’s funny.

PAT GEORGE:  That is what I do every trip.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  You do?  Ok…

PAT GEORGE:  I’m one of the last 3 to get on the boat.

DARRIN T. MISH:  So we were in Belize on a cruise and my wife and kids and I went on like an off-cruise sort of tour you know where you take a boat up into the jungle or whatever and the tour operator was having trouble that day and they just barely got us back to the launch to the point where we were running to the launch to make sure that we could get back and…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  You didn’t want to….

DARRIN T. MISH:  I was at the point where, when I was in the car on the way back you know, when they were driving us back. I was looking at which credit cards that I had in my wallet because I’m like, we are going to have to take a plane from here because we are in big trouble here. But as far as your little warrant story there, I had a buddy who lives out of state and he goes on a lot of cruises. He was in Ft. Lauderdale and they came and knocked on his door at 7 am and they took him to a holding cell and he was there for hours over a failure to have a saltwater fishing license in his position from like 10 years prior…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  What, are you kidding me, Darrin?

DARRIN T. MISH:  And they held him in custody for hours, and finally they decided, yeah, it’s not really worth it and they let him go. But he called me afterwards, and he is like what do I have to do to take care of this? And I was like, oh it’s easy we are going to call the clerk down in that county that the citation was issued. We are going to find out exactly how much money it is and we are going to have you write a check and pay the thing off.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So he got a citation for not having a fishing license and he was wanted is that what you are saying?

DARRIN T. MISH:  For like a $130 fine. Now, number 1, we talk about how you really shouldn’t even have to have a saltwater fishing license. But then again, he didn’t have one and he got a citation and he blew it off. And so, he ended up in that holding cell down at the port in Ft. Lauderdale.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  That would freak me out.

PAT GEORGE:  I have a worse story than that. I was on a 7-day cruise and the second day, we land in port somewhere, you know down by Belize somewhere. And helicopters are circling the boat as we are coming into the port and they took a mom and dad off the boat with the daughter that was 19 years old. And they had four younger kids and they took the mom and dad on the second day of the 7-day cruise off the boat and left the adult. The 19-year-old to watch the rest of the kids for the rest of the cruise.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  What where did they go?  Nobody knows anything?

PAT GEORGE:  They went to jail.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Or something.

PAT GEORGE:  Or something I don’t know what it was but could you imagine…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  No.

PAT GEORGE:  There your parents taking off, I mean they had a helicopter following them in and they were right on that boat.

DARRIN T. MISH:  But you had a good time just speculating for the rest of the 7-day cruise.

PAT GEORGE:  Well everyone did. Everyone was talking.

DARRIN T. MISH:  I talk to a lot of ex-patriots you know, American’s that are living overseas. And they have to file a tax return every year and a lot of them don’t because they don’t know about it. Let’s say you are an ex-pat and you live in Thailand most of the year and your passport gets revoked. There’s no way for you to know that your passport has been revoked because you are living in a hut in Thailand.

You know you don’t exactly give the state department your forwarding address. They go ahead and revoke your passport. You go ahead to get on the plane Phuket or Bangkok or wherever and they are like nope sorry your passports revoked. I don’t know what will happen there and I think we just have to wait and see.

I don’t think constitutionally, they can keep you outside of the United States if you are a US citizen. But what I think will happen is they will let you fly back in and I’m sure customs, that customs trip you know when you hit the states is going to be a lot of fun. And then I think your passport is going to be revoked at that point in time until you deal with the tax problem.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So, the person that you describe that is living in Thailand or whatever, let’s say they are not making any money they are just living in Thailand you know and…

DARRIN T. MISH:  If there is no income then there’s no need, there is no requirement to file a tax return but how many people do you know that literally have zero income. Now if you are just…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So, interest income right so let’s say they are just living off interest off of money that they put in the market, they have to file a tax return if they don’t?

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yeah, if it exceeds those really low thresholds. I have a lot of friends who are internet marketers, their entire business is online so they can live wherever. I have buddies that live in Columbia and all over the place and those guys have to file tax returns. We have to file our tax return on our worldwide income.

So, if you are in Columbia and even if he was making money in Columbia for example then he still has to file the tax return. Now there is a foreign income exclusion and it’s right now. I forget how much it is, let’s say it’s $95,000 or $105,000 or something like that. If you, the source of the income is in Columbia for that guy then he doesn’t have to pay tax on that first $105,000.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So if you are living abroad and you are making money there.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yeah, a more common example would be Saudi Arabia. Let’s say you are an oil or petroleum engineer in Saudi Arabia and they are paying you $20,000 a month. Which would not be uncommon so then you don’t have to pay tax on the first $105,000. But then you have to pay tax after that, and you also get a credit for all the tax you paid in Saudi Arabia. Assuming we have a tax treaty with that country and we do for most.

That’s what happens to US people who are in foreign countries they sometimes go years without filing their tax returns because they don’t know any better and then there is another trap for people who are living abroad and that is you have to file a form declaring the existence of a foreign bank account period every year and if you don’t there is harsh penalties, you could go to prison, you can be penalized up to 75% of the money in the bank account at any given point, the high balance…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  This makes me crazy because it makes me think that big brother wants to know every little thing that you have everywhere, you have anything.

DARRIN T. MISH:  I see you are finally catching on.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  No I know I’m just saying but I didn’t know that part.

PAT GEORGE:  Yeah but you don’t have a tax problem so you have nothing to worry about.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  I don’t but it still makes me mad it irritates me.

DARRIN T. MISH:  I think the solution is to you know get with Congressmen and get them to change the law. Now here is the problem, now ok, how sympathetic do you think Congress is going to be to people who owe $50,000 or more in tax debt. They are not going to be very sympathetic.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Here’s the thing though we talk a lot on the show about people that have a tax problem cause that is your primary business so we share stories and changes in the law and news and that sort of stuff that are around that and like, you remember the one time I joked around on the air and I said I should just transfer $10,000 back and forth just to irritate somebody that is watching that, just as a joke but the whole point is….

PAT GEORGE:  Nice joke.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  I mean I didn’t but I’m just saying why should somebody like me be harassed when I didn’t do anything. I pay my taxes who cares if I want to transfer $10,000 around and that’s the number they look at.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Virtually every person that I speak to is undergoing an audit feels exactly the way that you feel right now. In fact I had a gentleman in the office yesterday and he is like why are they bugging me again.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  I think most people feel that way.

DARRIN T. MISH:  When we are looking at his tax returns it’s like well see this number that number is really high, see that number that number is really high. Oh and by the way you filed a Schedule C which is the most heavily audited tax form there is…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  What is the C again I don’t remember…

DARRIN T. MISH:  A Schedule C is for a sole proprietorship you know claiming their income and expenses.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  I don’t know, how do you feel about that Pat. I think it’s irritating, like I don’t think big brother should be watching me if I want to, who cares if I want to transfer money from one bank account to the next.

PAT GEORGE:  I feel that I’m going to stay away from the Schedule C.

DARRIN T. MISH:  That’s good advice right there stay away.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  It’s, I know it’s a little bit off topic and I was just curious if you knew. If you’ve heard anything since all these changes are coming and we are talking about living and working abroad. What about for people that outsource stuff to other countries. Cause there is a lot of people including me that do outsource some stuff to other countries.

DARRIN T. MISH:  As far as I know you don’t have to issue a 1099 right because they don’t have…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  No they are not a citizen.

DARRIN T. MISH:  They don’t have an I10 or a social security number and so as far as I know that is just contract labor.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Think we will see some changes in that in the future. To early to say?

DARRIN T. MISH:  I don’t know.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Alright you are listening to the IRS Solution Attorney show stick around. We are going to talk more about if you have a tax problem your passport could be frozen. Don’t miss the show back in a minute.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Welcome back to the IRS Solution Attorney show I am the IRS Solution Attorney Darrin T. Mish.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  I’m your co-host Katrina Madewell. Don’t pay attention to my little chipmunk cheeks.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Today we are talking about how if you have a significant tax problem from the IRS owing $50,000 or more and you don’t take care of it. The IRS or actually the State Department to be technical will eventually revoke your passport. Which will cause you problems going on vacation or going on International business travel.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  We’ve got to try to track some of these people down Darrin. Just because you know this is the topic of the show so we’ve got to track a few of them down and have them on the show. Don’t you think this would be so fun.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Oh for sure. I’ll start getting these calls, almost immediately would be my guess is I will start to get some passport calls immediately. And I will have to figure out how to get, how to work with the State Department and get it all undone. It’s important to note that it’s not going to be the IRS that revokes the passports. What’s going to happen is the IRS is going to certify, is the word to the State Department that there is a problem. And then the State Department is going to go ahead and issue you like a, they are going to send you a letter. And they are going to tell you that you have x number of days. I think it’s going to be 90 days to allow you to resolve the tax problem. Which could be enough time theoretically because all you have to do is either pay it A you know that not’s going to be that common.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Write a check for 50 g’s.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yeah that’s not that common but there is going to be people that will you know just pay it. B; they can go ahead and enter into an offer in compromise. So that you know should keep your passport intact or C; enter into an installment agreement which will also keep the passport intact. I can tell you having dealt with people who owe taxes to the IRS for about 18 years now there will be a significant number of people who do nothing or don’t get the letter, especially in Florida and….

KATRINA MADEWELL:  I wonder how many of your people you are going to be knee deep in the middle of but try to take that little vacation and call you from where ever Darrin I’m stuck…

DARRIN T. MISH:  They will wait. They will wait until they are in line at the ticket counter to go to Cuba, or Mexico, or England, or Germany or you know wherever. And they are going to be turned away and it’s going to be really sad.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So does your 888-get-mish number work internationally?

DARRIN T. MISH:  It does not work internationally. So if you are listening to this internationally on a podcast you want to call us at 813-229-7100 or you can go to the website at getirshelp.com. And there is a message feature and what not on there.

PAT GEORGE:  I would just stay put, I wouldn’t go anywhere or do anything, I would say well I’m happy where I’m at I’m saving money.

DARRIN T. MISH:  I’m sure that is going to be good for the travel economy you know just everybody owes taxes hey no travel for you like the soup Nazi.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So you are saying if you are like in the Dominican Pat you are just going to stay?

PAT GEORGE:  Well no I’m not going to go there to start with no. Hey do we have anything to give away today?

DARRIN T. MISH:  We do in fact the first 5 callers get a free rooster.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  What?

PAT GEORGE:  I knew that was going to throw a curve on her.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Where did that come from?  Are you guys trying to..

PAT GEORGE:  Left field.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  You guys are trying to trip me.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Well as you know I live on a small farm and I, remember I did that big announcement a few months ago.

PAT GEORGE:  Not a small farm it’s a nice farm.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Well anyway it’s all relative.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  You’ve got chickens and ducks.

DARRIN T. MISH:  We’ve got chickens and I’ve got a surplus of roosters so if anybody wants a rooster and I don’t even care if you eat the rooster I wouldn’t personally eat it. They are big nice healthy about 10 pound roosters…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  What do you think you buy from the grocery store?  You think it’s not a rooster?

DARRIN T. MISH:  Call me ignorant but I never thought about that I don’t think so. I thought all eating chickens were hens that’s been my understanding..

KATRINA MADEWELL:  I’m so not a farm person so I could have this wrong but I don’t see why you couldn’t eat a rooster.

PAT GEORGE:  It’s a rotisserie rooster.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  I don’t know.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Usually what happens and my understanding is that male chicks…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  If you know could you just call and help us figure this out.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Male chicks are euthanized pretty much at birth. Because there is no, they don’t, they have no, like a lot of men like me they serve no real purpose so they just get euthanized anyway. Bad joke. Anyway the first 5 callers get a free rooster.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Oh my gosh.

DARRIN T. MISH:  You have to come pick it up though.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  888-404-1010 I can’t believe we are giving away roosters. You’re not serious are you?

DARRIN T. MISH:  That’s one of the fun parts of the show, no I’m actually serious I’ve got to get rid of them they are taking up too much room.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  888-404-1010 let us know if you want a rooster.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Check your zoning laws though you are probably not allowed to have roosters that’s the problem.

PAT GEORGE:  My wife just called and said don’t you dare.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  That’s funny.

DARRIN T. MISH:  And they crow a lot. No I don’t have a problem with that cause they are way far from the house…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Now don’t you have some attorney disclaimer or something about giving away a chicken on the air or a rooster?

DARRIN T. MISH:  You know I am drawing a blank I don’t really have a problem with giving away a rooster. If you want to have a rooster just call the show 888-404-1010.

PAT GEORGE:  You just have to come and pick it up.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yeah you don’t pick up today I don’t have it…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So are you bringing the rooster to Beasley we might have to let Carly know about that.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Oh that would be awesome we can let the gals up front give away, do the giveaway just like they do everything else.

PAT GEORGE:  They are going to like that in the prize closet.

DARRIN T. MISH:  It’s going to be awesome. The other problem with live animals is they have a tendency to you know make a mess.

PAT GEORGE:  I will tell you what I did do working at a radio station. One year I found a hurt pelican on the interstate when I was working traffic. And I brought it in and I did bring the bird into the radio station and they said where are we going to put that?  We put it in the shower and closed the door. I will warn you never to bring any kind of animal. Especially a foul type a bird animal because they don’t like it in there. And they start doing one thing, or two things and when we opened that door the next day it was everywhere.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  I bet you all took a shower right in there.

PAT GEORGE:  No one went back in that room for a long time so they are not going to let any roosters come into Beasley.

DARRIN T. MISH:  You know we’ve done some odd shows over the past year and  a half or so. This is about the weirdest show we’ve ever done.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  They always involve farm animals. Yeah I don’t have any.

DARRIN T. MISH:  You know if it’s live and Pat’s involved it’s going to be more colorful it’s going to be better.

PAT GEORGE:  You know we’ve talked from the Florida State Fair to cruises to you know flying and roosters and we cover everything.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  To moving around 10 grand just to make somebody watch you.

PAT GEORGE:  Right.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Left that part out. Have your guy troll the, scoop the media feeds and like Twitter, see what you can find for people that have those frozen passports that can’t come home.

DARRIN T. MISH:  I thought you were going to say frozen rooster I kid you not I thought that was what you were going to say.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  No frozen roosters.

DARRIN T. MISH:  But yeah, I will probably have some pretty soon and I will see if I can get them to come on the air and maybe we can get some of the video media involved as well. Because it’s going to be a pretty good story. They are going to be like family of 17 has their cruise tickets and they are ready to go and the guy tries to use his passport and they are like negative.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So you think they are going to get them coming or going?

DARRIN T. MISH:  Probably both. If I was enforcing the law, I would get them going because, I mean you don’t want to, you don’t want to strand somebody in another continent or something. You don’t want to strand them in a different country but it’s going to be really effective at least for those types of people..

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Wait a minute how are you going to strand them in another country if you don’t deal with it until you get back we talked about them knocking on the door at 7 am.

DARRIN T. MISH:  My point is there’s people that are overseas now that traveled on their passport before the law was even passed and they haven’t come back. When they come back in the port of entry wherever and they are going through customs or whatever they call it. The guy is going to be like hey you know you have. Your passport’s been revoked and thank you I will be keeping this and you need to call the State Department and get it taken care of.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So what do you do like you can’t get on a plane and go back to wherever you came from?

DARRIN T. MISH:  I guess you are not going to be able to go back to where you came from even if you live there it’s going to be a problem you are going to have to call me…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  They just going to hold you somewhere?

DARRIN T. MISH:  You are going to have to call me and ask me how we are going to deal with it and get it taken care of. It doesn’t have to be just me but you are going to have to call the IRS and deal with the problem. And one of the problems with the IRS right now in calling is they are so dramatically understaffed like wait times are insane. Most people who I speak with who try to call the IRS and handle the problem themselves actually had to hang up, they gave up. Either they gave up or the IRS did what they call a courtesy disconnect, now this is like…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  We talked about this.

DARRIN T. MISH:  This is one of my favorite terms that the IRS uses a courtesy disconnect, we’ve had you on hold for so long we are going to go ahead and hang up on you now. How does that make any sense? That only makes sense in the government bureaucracy.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Exactly, exactly.

PAT GEORGE:  Well that’s not going to happen anymore because you hear a lot in media now that they just hired an army of investigators.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yeah there are competitors of mine. That I hear their radio commercials just about every hour when I listen to the radio that say that they’ve just hired an army of new enforcers. That’s actually not true there is a hiring freeze with the Federal Government and they haven’t hired anybody in quite awhile.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So they are saying they are lying on their commercials that’s what I am hearing?

DARRIN T. MISH:  Well there is, we haven’t talked about this on the air yet but the IRS is going to be contracting collection out to private collection agencies. And there could be armies of those people being hired. But the last time they tried that, it was a miserable failure and the people violated the law and violated people’s rights and all kinds of things. And that’s what’s going to happen again is it’s going to be another miserable failure it’s not going to work out but we will see what happens. We will do another show on private collection agencies at some point in the future. Where we can talk about what to do if you get one of these private collections agencies calling you to collect your taxes.

PAT GEORGE:  Not only do you fix their problems you give them the truth.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  How does that work to you like if it’s a private collection agency and they violate the collection laws?  Cause debt collectors do it all the time.

DARRIN T. MISH:  I think there is going to be some problems with the I think it’s the FDCPA which is the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act. It’s almost a guarantee those private collection agencies will violate that act because at this. It’s very specific about what they can and can’t do. For example, you can’t call after 9 p.m and you can’t call somebody who has asked you not to call them and things like that.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  And at work you can’t hound them at work especially if they asked you not to.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yeah there’s a whole bunch of rules. And then the taxpayer actually has the right to sue those debt collectors for each instance of the violation of the act for $1000. So it’s nothing to see a case where there’s 38 violations for example. Now the problem is it’s litigation. You have to sue the people and then once you sue them and get a judgement. Then you have to collect the money so it’s not, it’s not the gold mine that is sounds like it.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  But there are attorney’s that do just that?

DARRIN T. MISH:  For sure there are attorney’s that do that.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Yeah, we’ve had them on the show before.

PAT GEORGE:  I was out to dinner last Friday and the discussion started. Everything is great and everything is nice. And the wife came along and whispered to the husband, we don’t have a checking account anymore because the IRS has frozen it and I can’t talk to anyone till Monday.

DARRIN T. MISH:  And this person hasn’t called me yet?  What kind of friend are you Pat?

KATRINA MADEWELL:  We’ve talked about this people literally are stuck..

PAT GEORGE:  Well I didn’t try to get involved but I could.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yeah that does happen where…

PAT GEORGE:  That’s what I saw first thing and it does happen so you talk about that all the time that they freeze it did happen.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So they were going to pay at dinner and the wife’s like no debit card sorry.

PAT GEORGE:  Yeah.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Well that’s why you always have to carry American Express just in case.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Did you pick up the tab Pat?

PAT GEORGE:  No I excused myself to the bathroom and never came back.

DARRIN T. MISH:  He grew some alligator arms real quick. So let’s talk about real quick who does the law affect?  Well the new law affects anyone who owes more than $50,000 to the IRS. Assuming they are not in an offer in compromise that is pending and there is no installment agreement and or they haven’t. They don’t have a pending innocent spouse claim. So basically, anyone who has $50,000 in debt or more and isn’t trying to proactively deal with it they are subject to having their passport revoked. Now the other thing that is important to note is what happens if your passport has been revoked, what do you got to do to get it back?  Well…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Yeah that is a good question what do you have to do to get it back and how long of a process is that?

DARRIN T. MISH:  It’s not super clear to me yet how that is going to work. I don’t know if you are going to be able to just enter into an installment agreement and pay $500 a month or whatever, and then you get your passport back. I think that’s how it’s going to work but they may very well say no now that we’ve revoked it. We’ve gone to that trouble we want you to go ahead and full pay or do an offer in compromise and full pay that before we go ahead and reissue the passport.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  New laws, new rules I have a feeling that you are going to be figuring out some of this stuff as you go. Maybe…

DARRIN T. MISH:  Definitely some lawsuits over this, because there are some things that I think are Unconstitutional. Freedom to travel I don’t know if that’s in the Constitution. I don’t think it is but it seems like something that you know a right that we have.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Yeah, I would think. I think you should do a barter with the first person that has their IRS tax issue revoked, they come on the air and tell their story.

DARRIN T. MISH:  No barter.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  No barter, no barter, he will hook you up though he will do a good job.

DARRIN T. MISH:  The problem is the barter just makes the tax return complicated that’s why I’m not interested in barter.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Makes sense. Well tell your story maybe he will give you a discount maybe I will work on him.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Ok.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  We will work on him. You are listening to the IRS Solution Attorney show we are already at the end of the third segment we will be back in a minute.

(commercial break)

DARRIN T. MISH:  Welcome back to the IRS Solution Attorney show it’s me that is the IRS Solution Attorney Darrin T. Mish.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  I know but Pat popped the microphones a little bit early and it you know….

PAT GEORGE:  By the way four of your roosters are gone.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Fantastic. We have such an awesome loyal audience that apparently likes roosters to.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So I’m Katrina Madewell your co-host. Pat George back there on the board making this show fun always..

PAT GEORGE:  Would of got rid of all 5 but the one lady that called she goes how many eggs can I get out of that one.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Ok that’s the embarrassing question that I would ask.

DARRIN T. MISH:  No, no this is actually funny. The term for a rooster that is not you know mature yet is a Cockerel. And so, on Craigslist I put up an ad for 5 cockerel’s and pictures and I have gotten calls where people were like how many eggs does it lay. Well…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  You should tell them it varies.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Let me explain.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  You should tell them it varies and let them pick the chicken up.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Like this is the worst darn chicken I have ever had. All it does is eat.

PAT GEORGE:  The bad part about is when it starts getting fat they start squeezing it.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Alright.

DARRIN T. MISH:  So I guess back to the topic of the show, today, which is if you have a significant tax debt. Which means $50,000 or more to the IRS and you don’t deal with it proactively they will revoke your passport. If you live in one of 5 states, Illinois, Minnesota, Missouri, New Mexico and Washington you cannot fly out using your driver’s license. So you must have a passport and if your passport is revoked then you will not be able to fly domestically either. So that’s the big story of the show today.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  You better take care of that tax problem call Darrin at 888-get-mish.

DARRIN T. MISH:  If your passport is confiscated you have about 5 different options you can call a tax attorney like me at 888-438-6474.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Whatever that number is 888-get-mish.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Or you can pay your tax debt off with a credit card that would, could be a solution you know…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Wait they take credit cards, the IRS?

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yeah they absolutely take credit cards you could get a cash advance, you could come up with the money and pay it off, you could refi your house provided they haven’t filed a tax lien yet you could refi your house…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  That ain’t happening.

DARRIN T. MISH:  You could pay off the tax debt that’s a potentially a solution. You could try to enter into an installment agreement on your own. Or you could try to enter into an offer in compromise on your own. An offer in compromise is you know an IRS program where you could make a deal to settle for less and that’s what we talk about a lot, you know a lot on the show.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  We did a whole show on that.

DARRIN T. MISH:  When we talk about the IRS train wreck of the week cause usually, it’s usually an offer in compromise story and today’s is as well so. An offer in compromise can be a great deal. Sometimes you can settle for very little on the dollar. But it’s not one of those things, I don’t think that most people can do on their own.

You could probably fill out the paperwork on your own but if anything goes wrong and something will, then you really not going to know exactly what to do. Kind of like last night we were trying to fix, we have a freezer that’s broken and we bought the new motor and a new fan and we were trying to figure out how to do it and I’m actually not sure if it got done or not because my wife is working on it and…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Heather probably fixed it.

DARRIN T. MISH:  I went to bed. She probably did but if anything, there was something that, we had a question we are like what does that wire do that wire is not in the YouTube video.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Oh my gosh.

DARRIN T. MISH:  It’s kind of like handle your own tax problems it’s very similar I think.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  If you call the guy he will get to it pretty quick. So what’s the, what’s your ballpark estimate guess when the first case comes up where they have frozen the passport for the IRS tax debt?

DARRIN T. MISH:  Let’s say fourth of July. You mean my first case. I think around…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Around fourth of July or showing up?

DARRIN T. MISH:  I bet the first one will show up around July fourth. So it’s about that time. It’s the time for the IRS train wreck of the week. This is the segment of the show where I talk about somebody who came in and they were literally a train wreck. They had all kinds of tax debt they didn’t know what to do the IRS was harassing them. Typically, after we get involved they end up smelling like a rose.

This case was no different. This particular gentleman lives in Louisiana and it’s always fun to talk to him because he has a real heavy Cajun accent, really nice guy. He’s in construction and he ended up like a lot of construction guys. He ended up getting way behind on his tax debt, his problem started in tax year 2000 and went all the way to tax year 2015. He racked up over $252,000 in tax debt…

PAT GEORGE:  No passport for that boy.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Isn’t he done by that point because he is all exempt cause of how old it is?

DARRIN T. MISH:  Well no because a tax professional before me got involved and filed all those old, old tax returns that were older than 6 years, remember….

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Really?

DARRIN T. MISH:  You remember that rule if you, if it’s more than 6 years old you don’t have to file that return well somebody before me and got a hold of them and filed a whole bunch of old tax returns and…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So now because he filed them he is subject to deal with all of that, right?

DARRIN T. MISH:  Once they are filed you have to deal with it. So, he owed over $252,000. Now it’s important to note that the IRS necessarily doesn’t, well they don’t necessarily need to get all that money from that taxpayer. They are way more involved in a case like this with him just getting back into the system. Because you just saw right there in my example, he has been out of the system for 16 years.

So what we did is we filed an offer in compromise and we got him current for 2016. I mean this was monumental, meaning we got him to pay estimated tax payments for 2016. This was monumental he had not paid income taxes, Federal income taxes for 16 years.

So we got him current, we filed the offer in compromise and we offered something trivial but I don’t remember a thousand bucks, five hundred bucks something like that and the IRS didn’t take that amount ok that’s in all candor they did not take that super low amount but they did counter offer $15,340.00 and my client wasn’t absolutely thrilled with it but once I explained to him that we did the math and that is 6 pennies on the dollar he got a little chipper and he decided that is a pretty darn good deal you know 15 grand and change for 252 grand…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  You think sometimes they forget that original number?

DARRIN T. MISH:  Oh positively and in some of these cases like this. Where it went from like a thousand dollar offer, to like $15,000. I had to remind him like look if you can pay that within the terms which is 5 months from the acceptance of the offer. You need to take that deal, that is the best deal you are ever going to get in your life and you know it’s unbelievable.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  You probably need to bring him in and give him a little visual. Like literally have this little piece of drawn poop with a thousand dollars, put it on the wall and go. This is what we are doing it’s probably not going to stick but we are going to try. You love that don’t you?

DARRIN T. MISH:  I can’t even believe you used that word on my show but anyway…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  But that is what you are doing theoretically.

DARRIN T. MISH:  So this gentleman is very happy and we did change his life. Because he has been looking over his shoulder for a long time, he’s been really worried about it for a long time. And when push came to shove when it was explained to him, he is like yep I am going to do what it takes to get it done, I am going to take care of it.

KATRINA MADEWELL: Yeah cause that percentage is ridiculous.

DARRIN T. MISH:  So I’m happy for him. I think the biggest problem that I enjoy solving is the mental and emotional stress components of these problems. Can you imagine owing 252 grand to the IRS?

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Nope, nope.

DARRIN T. MISH:  Over a period of 16 years. You know how that is going to impact your relationships, your life your health…

KATRINA MADEWELL:  I like to cruise it wouldn’t work for me.

PAT GEORGE:  And then you helped him down to $15,000, that’s chicken feed.

DARRIN T. MISH:  It’s rooster feed as a matter of fact.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Yeah cause when it’s $15,000 it’s less than 50 so technically he can go to….

DARRIN T. MISH:  Well absolutely once he’s entered in the offer in compromise and he pays it then there are not going to bug his passport.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So how long does he have to pay it again?

DARRIN T. MISH:  It’s 5 months from the date of formal acceptance of the offer so he will be in decent shape.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  What’s formal acceptance a letter in the mail or a call?

DARRIN T. MISH:  Yeah you get a letter in the mail that says that we formally accept it and it’s all, all the t’s are crossed and all the i’s are….

KATRINA MADEWELL:  So do they let you know verbally what they are taking before they mail a letter or no?

DARRIN T. MISH:  It’s not accepted yet, it’s just recommended for acceptance, it has to go through a layer of management, an IRS lawyer because of the amount. Everybody is pretty much going to rubber stamp this thing unless there is some major problem, and then you are going to get the letter in the mail.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  That’s probably months, right?

DARRIN T. MISH:  About 45 days, 45-60 days.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  Yeah that’s quite a bit of time. Well you are listening to the IRS Solution show and we are out of time.

DARRIN T. MISH:  We are in fact out of time.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  888-get-mish.

DARRIN T. MISH:  getirshelp.com. You can download the podcast at the Apple store or the Android store as well.

KATRINA MADEWELL:  We will be back next week for this week…

DARRIN T. MISH:  We are out.

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